Individual Hunger | B92 Blog

Re: cynical

krkar — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 05:18:11 GMT

Chris Farmer

vrabac_u_steniquite a cynical way to clean up bourgeois conscienceOn the contrary, the Bourgeois Conscience works very hard to keep any thoughts away about real problems facing the world. This same Conscience, in many people, lacks an automatic trigger which will signal awareness of the ravages of poverty and hunger - which, as duchesse rightly points out, we cannot begin to imagine. It would be a cynical to adhere to this movement and think that we have DONE SOMETHING about the problem. But this campaign is specifically made to make us think about the problem... In this way, I think this is acually giving the Bourgeois Conscience a kick in the ribs and telling it that some things cannot and should not be ignored.Rather than clean it up, this should place a stain on that same Conscience.

Seems this campaign was conceived with Dan Quayle in mind - he was notorious for being unable to think and chew bubble gum at the same time.

What's the point???

What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is.
Dan Quayle

Re: cynical

Exitus Letalis — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:06:47 GMT

Sto se tice ovih koji su se obogatili tajkunskim vezama i kradjama posle rata krajnje je vreme za jednu ozbiljnu i sveobuhvatnu nacionalizaciju!

eh, kad bi bilo.
al kao što rekoh, ko će to da uradi?
koliko njih još treba da se spali, iseče prst, baci se sa sprata ... da bi to doprlo do, ne onih koji imaju sve zahvaljujući svom kriminalnom umu a ne sposobnosti, nego do nesposobne države?
ko treba da pritisne državu?
jer ipak reaguju kad ih neko nagnječi.
slučaj kovačević belodano pokazuje.

a za milionče i mnogo drugih miliončića moglo je da bude mnooogooo manje gladih/bosih/golih a i poneko radno mesto.
zar ne?

Re: cynical

drug.clan — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:23:53 GMT

4krofnica
Cudi me da drzava svojim olaksicama nepodstice "teskase" da se vise ukljuce u donatorstvo...
Svima dobro i Drzavi skinuti sa grbace, a ovima ...sta god...neplacaju porez...
A Chris- jednostavno:
svoj normalan dorucak i rucak i veceru nek spakuje u kutiju i nek da nekom ko pretura po kontejneru.
To daje neki smisao....ovoj akciji.

To podsticanje da bogati daju milostinju (smanjivanjem poreza i davanjem privilegija) je u stvari isto kao da je drzava uzela njima pa dala socijalnu pomoc sa tom razlikom sto ovako bogati ispadnu dobrotvori iako i tu milostinju daju iz koristi. Ne treba njima dati da zaradjuju na grbaci onih kojima kasnije treba pomoc. U toj opciji se izbacuju svi posrednici u davanju i uzimanju koji uvek zakinu.

Exitus Letalis
Veoma, veoma je lose da se drustvo oslanja na dobru volju onih koji su se obogatili uglavnom na racun i izrabljujuci one kojima treba pomoc

vrlo je upitno na koje su se sve načine bogatili.
bilo je tu i ratne pljačke i trgovine oružjem etc.

Najbolje resenje je da drzava zastiti gradjane od takvih pre nego sto dodju u situaciju da im je potrebna javna kuhinja (ma kako se ona finansirala).

kako da nije. ali oni su činjenica. odnosno, činjenica je da se vlast nije s njima obračunala kad je bilo vreme i nažalost, danas oni upravljaju državom. javno ili iz senke ali to je fakat.
zar nije sve vrlo potanko objašnjeno u insajderu kako im je ova ista vlast ili ona prethodna, ugurala u džepove silne novce.
pa šta bi od toga?
šta se desilo i onima iz vlasti i onima koji su pazarili onolike lokacije za pare za koje bi se i ti i ja mogli da uzajmimo?
šta bi sa onim silnim aferama kad je vlas' uterala u vlasništvo državne stanove svojima po budzašta lovi?
da, treba uzeti onima koji su se obogatili ali ko će da im uzme?
jedino može neki argentinski scenario, koji, naravno, ne priželjkujem, jer bogatašima napamet ne pada da išta daju
dobrovoljno.
sem da izgrade koju crkvu.

u pravu si ali ne mislim ja samo na one bogate koji u tranziciji stekli imovinu vec i na one koji to rade putem legalnog liberalnog kapitalizma. Treba njih ograniciti da se uopste toliko obogate a onda i ne moraju da daju milostinju.

Sto se tice ovih koji su se obogatili tajkunskim vezama i kradjama posle rata krajnje je vreme za jednu ozbiljnu i sveobuhvatnu nacionalizaciju!

Re: cynical

Exitus Letalis — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 18:51:40 GMT

Veoma, veoma je lose da se drustvo oslanja na dobru volju onih koji su se obogatili uglavnom na racun i izrabljujuci one kojima treba pomoc

vrlo je upitno na koje su se sve načine bogatili.
bilo je tu i ratne pljačke i trgovine oružjem etc.

Najbolje resenje je da drzava zastiti gradjane od takvih pre nego sto dodju u situaciju da im je potrebna javna kuhinja (ma kako se ona finansirala).

kako da nije. ali oni su činjenica. odnosno, činjenica je da se vlast nije s njima obračunala kad je bilo vreme i nažalost, danas oni upravljaju državom. javno ili iz senke ali to je fakat.
zar nije sve vrlo potanko objašnjeno u insajderu kako im je ova ista vlast ili ona prethodna, ugurala u džepove silne novce.
pa šta bi od toga?
šta se desilo i onima iz vlasti i onima koji su pazarili onolike lokacije za pare za koje bi se i ti i ja mogli da uzajmimo?
šta bi sa onim silnim aferama kad je vlas' uterala u vlasništvo državne stanove svojima po budzašta lovi?
da, treba uzeti onima koji su se obogatili ali ko će da im uzme?
jedino može neki argentinski scenario, koji, naravno, ne priželjkujem, jer bogatašima napamet ne pada da išta daju
dobrovoljno.
sem da izgrade koju crkvu.

Re: cynical

4krofnica — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 18:43:40 GMT

Cudi me da drzava svojim olaksicama nepodstice "teskase" da se vise ukljuce u donatorstvo...
Svima dobro i Drzavi skinuti sa grbace, a ovima ...sta god...neplacaju porez...
A Chris- jednostavno:
svoj normalan dorucak i rucak i veceru nek spakuje u kutiju i nek da nekom ko pretura po kontejneru.
To daje neki smisao....ovoj akciji.

Re: cynical

drug.clan — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 18:32:08 GMT

Exitus Letalis
Ovo je praksa koja tek treba da se usadi u Srbiju.

da, bilo bi dobro.
ali ovde se zatvaraju javne kuhinje kad nema donatora.
a ne pada napamet nekim bogatim ljudima u srbiji da bi mogli da budu donatori bar jedne kuhinje
a da im se ne okrnji bogatstvo.
ovde se misli da to moraju da urade zapadne zemlje.

mnogi se sećaju i danas unrinih paketa posle ww2 i žutog sira.
valjda se misli da se ništa nije promenilo i da amerika ima obavezu da i dalje šalje žuti sir.

Veoma, veoma je lose da se drustvo oslanja na dobru volju onih koji su se obogatili uglavnom na racun i izrabljujuci one kojima treba pomoc (ne mozemo od njih ocekivati dobrotu jer da su hteli svojoj zajednici dobro ne bi se tako obogatili na racun te iste zajednice).
Drzava je tu da uzme bez pitanja od tih bogatih i da da onima kojima treba.

Najbolje resenje je da drzava zastiti gradjane od takvih pre nego sto dodju u situaciju da im je potrebna javna kuhinja (ma kako se ona finansirala).

Ako to ne radi cemu onda drzava? Da stiti povlascenu manjinu?

Different concepts

duchesse — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 18:08:50 GMT

taking action and raising awareness.
Nobody stated the latter could or should replace the first, or that it was more purposeful.

Re: cynical

Exitus Letalis — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:57:07 GMT

Ovo je praksa koja tek treba da se usadi u Srbiju.

da, bilo bi dobro.
ali ovde se zatvaraju javne kuhinje kad nema donatora.
a ne pada napamet nekim bogatim ljudima u srbiji da bi mogli da budu donatori bar jedne kuhinje
a da im se ne okrnji bogatstvo.
ovde se misli da to moraju da urade zapadne zemlje.

mnogi se sećaju i danas unrinih paketa posle ww2 i žutog sira.
valjda se misli da se ništa nije promenilo i da amerika ima obavezu da i dalje šalje žuti sir.

Re: cynical

spartanka_afrodita — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:30:01 GMT

Isto tako gradjani daju dobrovoljne priloge za sirotinju. Kupuje se u odredjenim radnjama i tamo odnose stvari. Volontira se u razlicitim prihvatnim centrima, ili javnim kuhinjama

Ovo je praksa koja tek treba da se usadi u Srbiju.

Re: cynical

Jelena Pavlović — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:17:48 GMT

možda dobijemo koji aplauz ili tapšanje po ramenu.

Evo kako mi to radimo u Americi: Od gradjana se zatrazi pomoc tako sto se ispred sanduceta za postu, u kese, ili torbe, stave razlicite non-parishable namirnice koje odredjeni ljudi iz razlicitih centara dodju da pokupe. Bar jedanput mesecno. Isto tako gradjani daju dobrovoljne priloge za sirotinju. Kupuje se u odredjenim radnjama i tamo odnose stvari. Volontira se u razlicitim prihvatnim centrima, ili javnim kuhinjama. Svi mi koji imamo vise, a moja porodica i ja imamo dovoljno da zivimo udobno i skromno onako kako bi smo ziveli i u Beogradu, da smo u njemu ostali, ucestvuju u ovakvim akcijama.

takva akcija može da bude dobra. samo da ne bude kratkog daha.

Takva akcija je svakako potrebna, pogotovo u Srbiji gde ima mnogo, mnogo, mnogo sirotinje. I zasto da ne, ako ni zbog cega drugog, gladovanje je korisno za nas site, bar jedan dan u mesecu. Cak i pozeljno.

Re: cynical

Exitus Letalis — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:57:35 GMT

drug.clan
vrabac_u_steni
quite a cynical way to clean up bourgeois conscience

right on target

naravno da je cinično.
i da proširimo na sve koji imaju da jedu svaki dan dovoljno.

što kaže tanja, ako ugasiš svetlo jedan dan, to je ipak malo manje struje i makar mrvicu doprinosi da se smanji globalno zagrevanje, iako je i to vrlo simboličan čin.
a ovo je samo simboličan čin bez efekta na gladne ljude širom sveta.
da, baš će se obradovati što ne jedemo jedan dan.
u, al ima da cene.
možda dobijemo koji aplauz ili tapšanje po ramenu.

p.s. ja sam lično više puta poslala onaj sms na 2500 u fond "hrana za sve". vidim da su se mnoge firme priključile donacijama u hrani i novcu.
takva akcija može da bude dobra. samo da ne bude kratkog daha.

Chris

jednatanja — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:57:33 GMT

Could the people in charge not think of a more efficient way to help? I am not saying that the power of an idea alone is not sufficient, every little bit counts when you are presented with such a huge problem. However, I would have liked to see some action, meat, if you will (no pun intended) to back up this individual starvation day.

When several months ago I turned off all the lights in my home on one Friday night., this was a symbolic action meant to unite people of the same conviction against global warming, but also the action had directly some benefits in terms of less electricity used on that day across the Globe.

Call me a pragmatist, but hungry people are dying and each day is precious. Anyway, a noble cause, for sure.

Re: cynical

bindu — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:27:55 GMT

But this campaign is specifically made to make us think about the problem...

in buddhism we called it the "training of the mind and body". we must train our minds on an every day basis in order to become more aware of the problems we are facing in our lives and in the world we live in.

this way you add to your daily routine another practice that could change the world one day. we must change our selves in order to change the world.

people ask what are red ribbons around our wrists? it is to remind us that in this world, we have to think about others, less fortunate, who are enduring extreme conditions like hunger for example.

and of course we can only hope that this will work in the end. that hope and good intentions are all we have for now....

the buddha was a beggar, a perfect selfless self.

What Feels Right

Ivana Knežević — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:22:41 GMT

You are far more likely to think about food, Chris, than world hunger. Your own hunger will reign over philanthropic impulses. And that is most normal. Fortunately, you have plenty of good water and can look forward to a blissful meal on Saturday.

But if it feels right for you doing something like this, sure, why not. I am not sure that I see the point to spreading the message though. Collecting food and taking it to the hungry does more. A day's food is a day less of hunger - not a negligible feat. But it still doesn't bring anybody closer to knowing how to fish. Or applying effective contraception. Or breaking down the monopolies of food industry. Or...
Poverty has long ago become powerful currency in human affairs. Shameful, monstrous and grotesque in every sense.

And I am certainly not implying that I know how to eliminate it. Legal actions might be a start. Legal systems are celebrated as highest achievements of the richest countries in the world. Food water and shelter should be basic and primary human rights. Far ahead of many celebrated ones. Just that in itself may be enough to change the world.
Who knows.

Re: cynical

drug.clan — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 12:54:56 GMT

vrabac_u_steni
quite a cynical way to clean up bourgeois conscience

right on target

Re: cynical

duchesse — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 10:22:35 GMT

Chris Farmer
giving the Bourgeois Conscience a kick in the ribs and telling it that some things cannot and should not be ignored.

Precisely.
@Vrabac, imagine wearing a blindfold for a whole day. It wouldn't make blind people see, but you'd be more aware of the problems they face in their daily lives, and maybe more sensitive to their needs. It's the same with the hunger strike.

I am looking forward to Friday

mikimedic — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 10:12:57 GMT

... and my weekly routine at good old Mac.

Re: cynical

Chris Farmer — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 09:58:19 GMT

vrabac_u_steni
quite a cynical way to clean up bourgeois conscience

On the contrary, the Bourgeois Conscience works very hard to keep any thoughts away about real problems facing the world. This same Conscience, in many people, lacks an automatic trigger which will signal awareness of the ravages of poverty and hunger - which, as duchesse rightly points out, we cannot begin to imagine.

It would be a cynical to adhere to this movement and think that we have DONE SOMETHING about the problem. But this campaign is specifically made to make us think about the problem... In this way, I think this is acually giving the Bourgeois Conscience a kick in the ribs and telling it that some things cannot and should not be ignored.

Rather than clean it up, this should place a stain on that same Conscience.

Re: cynical

duchesse — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 09:19:54 GMT

vrabac_u_steni
quite a cynical way to clean up bourgeois conscience

Fair enough.

We have to clear our conscience somehow, though.

Re: Food is life!

spartanka_afrodita — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 09:18:38 GMT

We cannot imagine what it's like. Especially the humiliation part.

I will repeat it because is consider it to be a key:
HUNGER IS THE WORST AND THE MOST CRUEL FORM OF POVERTY!!!!
And will quote words of the writer Ivo Andric, Nobel prize winner:

“Beda savija kičmu, usporava korak, gasi glas, hvata za oči kao nevidljiva lepljiva paučina, nepovratno i nepopravljivo mesi čoveka, steže oko njega svoje granice, odvaja ga zauvek od radosti, tako da mu ništa ne može pomoći, ni novac, ni najpovoljnija promena životnih uslova, jer više nije sposoban da ih primi.“

I apologize for not translating it into English, but I am afraid I shell not do it skillful enough to pass its real feeling, meaning and point.

cynical

vrabac_u_steni — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 09:16:06 GMT

quite a cynical way to clean up bourgeois conscience

Re: Food is life!

duchesse — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:57:15 GMT

spartanka_afrodita
Hunger that will feel those who will strike on Friday is just very small fraction of hunger, pain, suffering, humiliation that more then 500.000 people in Serbia live with daily

That's what I'm saying. We cannot imagine what it's like. Especially the humiliation part. For us it will be over in 24 hours, and we know it. It's not knowing when or if it's going to end that hurts the most.

spartanka_afrodita
Additionally, it will be helpful if restaurants and catering services instead of throwing food that remained to distribute them to shelters and public kitchens. The same is with food-store chains: they have loads of food close to expiration day that can not be sold in due time, so instead disposing it food can be delivered to those who are hungry and who will eat it much before expiration date.

Organization very professionally and devotedly dealing with hunger issue in Serbia is Food Bank Belgrade, where I used to work for some time and that deserves wider support.

Food is life!

spartanka_afrodita — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:42:48 GMT

And hunger is the worst form of poverty!

I supported initiative from the very beginning, because I think it is great way to rice public awareness on problem of hunger. Hunger that will feel those who will strike on Friday is just very small fraction of hunger, pain, suffering, humiliation that more then 500.000 people in Serbia live with daily. I hope hunger strike on Friday will inspire citizens and companies to help on permanent basis in future those who are hungry every day.

1 kg of flour or sugar or 1 loaf of bread or 1/2 kg of rice or 1/2 of dry fruits or 3-4 cans of tuna fish are not a lot for any individual on two-weeks or 1 month bases but if everyone gives it will be a lot for those who are hungry.

Additionally, it will be helpful if restaurants and catering services instead of throwing food that remained to distribute them to shelters and public kitchens. The same is with food-store chains: they have loads of food close to expiration day that can not be sold in due time, so instead disposing it food can be delivered to those who are hungry and who will eat it much before expiration date.

Organization very professionally and devotedly dealing with hunger issue in Serbia is Food Bank Belgrade, where I used to work for some time and that deserves wider support.

hunger strike

Jelena Pavlović — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:53:21 GMT

I will not be eating on Friday!

Being with you

buba_truba — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:50:02 GMT

I'll sign up

duchesse — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:17:21 GMT

and I do understand the concept, but...
I don't think that those of us who choose to go hungry can actually grasp what it's like to live in abject poverty.
We're just tourists.

.

bindu — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 06:58:31 GMT

good!good for you:)
I'm going to try to do same!!

it is not easy at all, so, wish you good luck:))))