B92 Blog

moved back to belgrade after 7 years in US, and now, after 6 months he is going back to US. he tried some business in belgrade, and it didn't work out. market monopoly, amateurism and bribing in business (that he really didn't want to do) made him change his mind.

This is exactly what happened to me except that I came from and returned to one of the countries in EU. Now I am going to stay here until my pension and shall return to Serbia later if dinar comes to a more normal exchange rate against euro. At the moment Serbia is too expensive because of an artificial exchange rate.

moved back to Belgrade after 15 years in the US. Had a successful restaurant in fancy part of NYC. Now has a successful restaurant in Belgrade. Lives like a king. Mostly by importing heavy industrial machinery from Europe.

nsarski do you plan to go back?

Yep,
as soon as I sell my house.

after how long?

Hard to tell:))
I've moved back and forth 3 times. I've lived in this country for more than 20 years altogether (between 1974 and now).

as soon as I sell my house.

The market is not so favorable these days. Maybe it would be better to rent it for some time?

I guess I am still not officially an expat, given that I'm still "only studying" abroad, but since the moment for a decision is drawing nigh, I feel this is a good topic for me. I love Belgrade. I love the people that tie me to it, I love the places, I love the air on a spring afternoon, I love the slowdown it provides, an escape from the hectic west (and I wish, selfish as I am, it could remain like that forever). What I don't like is the fleeting feeling of helplessness and the feeling that I I can achieve more here where I am right now in terms of my career. I'm grossly romantic in my perception of life in Belgrade, a trait that silently creeps upon most of those on the other side of the border. The knowledge of this being so allows me not to make a rash decision that I might regret one day. However, if I could pick three things that I wish changed and some goldfish or a genie was present to oblige, I'd ask for the following:

-all current politicians to rot in some type of hell for all eternity (or, perhaps, 40-50 years), which would facilitate the occurrence of the next item
-people to snap the bleep out of the winter sleep they're in and take control over their lives
-Harley Davidson to open a dealership in Belgrade

I may be asking a lot (with the dealership), but, given how hard it is to find a genie these days, you really don't want to be modest when you find one.

-Harley Davidson to open a dealership in Belgrade

That's the ticket! Go back to Serbia, and open a H.D. dealership in Bg.! You'll live great life and make money at the same time.

and Indian :))

why all HD guys are short? or most of SUV drivers? macho think? ego? :)))

-Harley Davidson to open a dealership in Belgrade

Is there still a Harley Davidson shop on the corner of 29. novembra and Emilijana Josimovića, Trg republike?

nsarski

-Harley Davidson to open a dealership in Belgrade

That's the ticket! Go back to Serbia, and open a H.D. dealership in Bg.! You'll live great life and make money at the same time.

The idea is positively delightful! I may actually do that one day. I was thinking more like opening a microbrewery but the dealership also sounds interesting. The roar of the engine, thunderstorm a coming...

ohhh...I hate that ! :)))

I was thinking more like opening a microbrewery but the dealership also sounds interesting.

Combination could be a killer? Now, I am tempted... seriously.

Well, in reality, I do want to open a brew-pub in Belgrade at some point, I already have a name for the pub and for my signature ale and some ideas about a possible location and the interior design. Once I've saved up enough money I'll do an actual feasibility study and a marketing research... With a dealership right next door, I could get the unsuspecting customers properly buzzed before I do an actual sales pitch ;)

ohhh...I hate that ! :)))

The sound?

Nietzsches Aprentice

ohhh...I hate that ! :)))

The sound?

yes :))

You cannot be serious :) Next to that of a stratocaster, it has got to be the most beautiful sound ever :)

I don't know what stratocaster is, but when you guys pass by me with that sound, my body starts shaking and my (dearly beloved and very sensitive) ears gets totally annoyed. and then, I always visualize that muffler up in to riders ass (pard my language).


but I love the sound of formula one though :))

what???

Left handed? That's nothing, see this:

idemo na gibson
les paul:)

taj

vucko

-Harley Davidson to open a dealership in BelgradeIs there still a Harley Davidson shop on the corner of 29. novembra and Emilijana Josimovića, Trg republike?

Nope...

Don't worry about the Harley Davidson dealership, Miskovic has probably planed something as we speak.

Nietzsches Aprentice

Well, in reality, I do want to open a brew-pub in Belgrade at some point...

Pa gde ces pored zive Kasine? - Why, with Casina still running?

I prefer the sound of the 6.1L HEMI. :-)

Wow, imressive!

Ever considered Bradley with tinted glass?. And the roar! Wrrrrooooouuuummmmm!

Out of this world



and 100% safe. No one can touch you.

Oh come on! It would only serve as a weekend driver! :-) It's not like it's a 7.0L Chevy big block.

Miskovic rulez!!!
After Costa coffee shops thats his next go.

... here is why:

*Pijanstvo

Ne marim da pijem, al` sam pijan često.
U graji, bez druga, sam, kraj pune čaše.
Zaboravim zemlju, zaboravim mesto
Na kome se jadi i poroci zbraše.

Ne marim da pijem. Al` kad priđe tako
Svet mojih radosti, umoren, i moli
Za mir, za spasenje, za smrt ili pak`o,
Ja se svemu smejem pa me sve i boli.

I pritisne očaj, sam, bez moje volje,
Ceo jedan život, i njime se kreće;
Uzvik ga prolama: "Neće biti bolje,
Nikad, nikad bolje, nikad biti neće."

I ja žalim sebe. Meni nije dano,
Da ja imam zemlju bez ubogih ljudi,
Oči plave, tople kao leto rano,
Život u svetlosti bez mraka i studi.

I želeci da se zaklonim od srama,
Pijem, i zaželim da sam pijan dovek;
Tad ne vidim porok, društvo gde je čama,
Tad ne vidim ni stid što sam i ja čovek.

Vladislav Petkovic - Dis

*I deeply apologize to the author for the poem not presented in English. Just because it would loose most of its power in translation.

Mungos, The Human

"Who was bitten by snake, he gets scared even of a lizard!" (People from many corners of the world)

what in your mind would make return-worthy conditions? Why and when will you move home again?

I don't see any conditions in foreseeable future that would make me return. Maybe when I retire? It won't make much difference in that case, anyway.

I keep posting this joke about an old man in Germany, he meets a countryman, a truck driver from his village in Serbia, and he asks him to give him a ride back to their village. The trucker asks him, why? I am tired of everything, I just want to go back and die in my country. So, the trucker gives him a ride.

After about a year, they meet again in the Serbian village, and the old man starts to cry to the trucker: Man, please take me back to Germany! Why, the trucker asks, didn't you want to come back to Serbia to die? The old man replies, I did want to come back to die, but I did not want to come back to LIVE!

Instead of elaborating my position on stay-or-return (which is mostly "stay", because of my wife's career), I would point to one single issue about the two step sons of yours.

It is their education. You may find Sombor great for living, and that's fine, but the two boys should have the opportunity to become able to choose where they'll live when they come to our age. And this probably means that they, if willing and able, should get a first-class education, which probably means some prestigious university in US (if your choice is US or Serbia). Our Belgrade University was fairly good 20 years ago, but I'm not sure about its rating now and how easy or hard would it be to move further, in global terms, once graduated there.

Excellent point.

vucko

...Our Belgrade University was fairly good 20 years ago, but I'm not sure about its rating now and how easy or hard would it be to move further, in global terms...

Belgrade U. has not made the THES top 500 list in years. Certainly hasn't been on that list in the 21st century. As an example of how bad thigs are, #492 in 2006 was the University of Colombo, Sri Lanka!

Well my wife and I are currently preparing to pay $13k a year for the grammar school, net tuition. There are public schools also here in Glasgow, but the real estate market is very much aware of the good ones (catchment area issue)... reminds me to some lessons from the "Armchair economist" book.

US colleges are insanely expensive -- $24k per year for tuition average plus $10k for dormitory which is required at many -- so we were a bit jealous of Serb parents who get nearly free educations for their kids.

You get what you pay for. Try a prestigious entry level position anywhere in the US starting at, say, $100K/yr and up with a degree from U. of Belgrade. Law, business, medical...you name it.

If anything is "insanely expensive" it is NOT to invest in your kids. After all, there are college loans. Once they've secured a good job in a lucrative field, those loans are easy to pay back.

jumping_genes

vucko

...Our Belgrade University was fairly good 20 years ago, but I'm not sure about its rating now and how easy or hard would it be to move further, in global terms...

Belgrade U. has not made the THES top 500 list in years. Certainly hasn't been on that list in the 21st century. As an example of how bad thigs are, #492 in 2006 was the University of Colombo, Sri Lanka!

This info is very interesting. Do you know if and where we can find THES ranking archives?
I did a (very) quick search, but no luck.
Thanks

Mathematics Gimnasium in Belgrade was very good as two kids passed entry exams at MIT, Yale and Harvard. Serbian University diploma wouldn't count much in USA. There are a lot of good USA programs in EU for shoping :-)
I am retired but returning to Serbia from Slovenia would be suicide with the present state of their health care. I am also sceptical about the claims of big money being made in Serbia these days on regular business.

http://www.thes.co.uk/worldrankings/

This is the official website for the Times Higher Education Supplement (subscription req'd). While this is by no means the only list you'll ever see, the methodology is sound and authoritative, and for the sake of this argument going on here, it serves only the purpose of illustrating just how bad things are (going to be) when young citizens of Serbia start to compete on the global market in the future. I think we managed to dodge the bullet throughout the 90s riding the coat-tails of our higher education system's old glory, but this is what every one else is looking at nowadays.

Here's the top200:

Rank School Name Country
1 Harvard University United States
2 University of Cambridge United Kingdom
3 University of Oxford United Kingdom
4= Massachusetts Institute of Technology United States
4= Yale University United States
6 Stanford University United States
7 California Institute of Technology United States
8 University of California, Berkeley United States
9 Imperial College London United Kingdom
10 Princeton University United States
11 University of Chicago United States
12 Columbia University United States
13 Duke University United States
14 Peking University China
15 Cornell University United States
16 Australian National University Australia
17 London School of Economics and Political... United Kingdom
18 Ecole Normale Supérieure France
19= University of Tokyo Japan
19= National University of Singapore Singapore
21 McGill University Canada
22 University of Melbourne Australia
23 Johns Hopkins University United States
24 ETH Zurich Switzerland
25 University College London (UCL) United Kingdom
26 University of Pennsylvania United States
27 University of Toronto Canada
28 Tsing Hua University China
29= University of Michigan United States
29= Kyoto University Japan
31 University of California, Los Angeles United States
32 University of Texas at Austin United States
33= University of Hong Kong Hong Kong
33= University of Edinburgh United Kingdom
35= University of Sydney Australia
35= Carnegie Mellon University United States
37 École Polytechnique France
38 Monash University Australia
39 University of Geneva Switzerland
40 University of Manchester United Kingdom
41 University of New South Wales Australia
42 Northwestern University United States
43 New York University United States
44 University of California, San Diego United States
45 University of Queensland Australia
46= University of Auckland New Zealand
46= King's College London United Kingdom
48= Washington University in St. Louis United States
48= University of Rochester United States
50= University of British Colombia Canada
50= Chinese University of Hong Kong Hong Kong
52 Sciences Po Paris France
53 Vanderbilt University United States
54= Brown University United States
54= University of Copenhagen Denmark
56 Emory University United States
57 Indian Institute of Technology India
58= Hong Kong University of Science & Techno... Hong Kong
58= Ruprecht-Karls-Universität Heidelberg Germany
60 Case Western Reserve University United States
61= Dartmouth College United States
61= Nanyang Technological University Singapore
63 Seoul National University South Korea
64= Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne... Switzerland
64= University of Bristol United Kingdom
66 Boston University United States
67 Eindhoven University of Technology Netherlands
68 Indian Institute of Management India
69 University of Amsterdam Netherlands
70= School of Oriental and African Studies United Kingdom
70= Osaka University Japan
72 Ecole Normale Supérieure Lyon France
73 University of Warwick United Kingdom
74 Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México Mexico
75 University of Basel Switzerland
76 Catholic University of Louvain Belgium
77 University of Illinois United States
78 University of Dublin, Trinity College Ireland
79= University of Otago New Zealand
79= University of Wisconsin United States
81 University of Glasgow United Kingdom
82= Macquarie University Australia
82= Technische Universität München Germany
84 University of Washington United States
85 University of Nottingham United Kingdom
86 Delft University of Technology Netherlands
87 University of Vienna Austria
88 University of Pittsburgh United States
89 University of Lausanne Switzerland
90= University of Birmingham United Kingdom
90= Leiden University Netherlands
92 Erasmus University Rotterdam Netherlands
93= Université Pierre-et-Marie-Curie France
93= Lomonosov Moscow State University Russia
95 Utrecht University Netherlands
96 Catholic University of Leuven Belgium
97 Wageningen University Netherlands
98 Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München Germany
99= Queen Mary, University of London United Kingdom
99= Pennsylvania State University United States
101 University of Southern California United States
102= Georgetown University United States
102= University of Sheffield United Kingdom
102= Rice University United States
105= University of Adelaide Australia
105= Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin Germany
105= University of Sussex United Kingdom
108 National Taiwan University Taiwan
109= University of Zurich Switzerland
109= University of St Andrews United Kingdom
111= University of Western Australia Australia
111= Wake Forest University United States
111= University of Maryland United States
111= Uppsala University Sweden
115 University of Twente Netherlands
116= University of Helsinki Finland
116= Fudan University China
118 Tokyo Institute of Technology Japan
119 Hebrew University of Jerusalem Israel
120 Keio University Japan
120* Université libre de Bruxelles Belgium
121 University of Leeds United Kingdom
122 Lund University Sweden
123 University of North Carolina United States
124= University of York United Kingdom
124= University of Massachusetts, Amherst United States
126 University of Aarhus Denmark
127 Purdue University United States
128= Nagoya University Japan
128= Kyushu University Japan
130= Tufts University United States
130= University of Virginia United States
132 Durham University United Kingdom
133= Hokkaido University Japan
133= University of Newcastle upon Tyne United Kingdom
133= Vrije University Brussels Belgium
133= University of Alberta Canada
137 Radboud Universiteit Nijmegen Netherlands
138 Vienna University of Technology Austria
139 University of Liverpool United Kingdom
140 Cranfield University United Kingdom
141= Cardiff University United Kingdom
141= University of Ghent Belgium
141= University of Southampton United Kingdom
141= University of California, Santa Barbara United States
145 Georgia Institute of Technology United States
146 RMIT University Australia
147= Chalmers University of Technology Sweden
147= Tel Aviv University Israel
149 Freie Universität Berlin Germany
150= Texas A&M University United States
150= Korea University South Korea
152 University of Notre Dame United States
153 University of Bath United Kingdom
154 City University of Hong Kong Hong Kong
155 McMaster University Canada
156= Curtin University of Technology Australia
156= Universität Göttingen Germany
158= Waseda University Japan
158= Universität Ulm Germany
158= Technion - Israel Institute of Technolog... Israel
161= Chulalongkorn University Thailand
161= Université Louis Pasteur - Strasbourg I France
163 Michigan State University United States
164 Saint-Petersburg State University Russia
165= State University of New York at Stony Br... United States
165= Université libre de Bruxelles Belgium
165= University of Science and Technology of ... China
168= George Washington University United States
168= Tohoku University Japan
170= Universität Tübingen Germany
170= University of California, Davis United States
172= Royal Institute of Technology Sweden
172= Rheinisch-Westfälische Technische Hochsc... Germany
172= Yeshiva University United States
172= University of Maastricht Netherlands
176 Queen's University Canada
177 University of Oslo Norway
178 University of Bern Switzerland
179 Shanghai Jiao Tong University China
180 Nanjing University China
181= Kobe University Japan
181= University of Montreal Canada
183= Jawaharlal Nehru University India
183= Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam Netherlands
185 Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia Malaysia
186 University of Innsbruck Austria
187= University of Minnesota United States
187= Brandeis University United States
187= Universität Frankfurt am Main Germany
190= University of Barcelona Spain
190= University of Reading United Kingdom
192= Queensland University of Technology Australia
192= University of Malaya Malaysia
194 Technical University of Denmark Denmark
195 University of Aberdeen United Kingdom
196 University of Wollongong Australia
197 Università degli Studi di Roma - La Sapi... Italy
198= University of California, Irvine United States
198= Korea Advanced Institute of Science & Te... South Korea
200 Universite Paris-Sorbonne (Paris IV) France

and it goes all the way to 500. Not a single school from Serbia there (nor any of the former YU universities except for the U of Ljubljana, #418 in 2005).

THES rankinggs

$100k entry level?

Key word was "prestigious". Of course, there are jobs like that, but not on every corner and every industry. And even if you start with a lower salary, with a degree from a very good school you can advance very quickly. Not always the case with foreign degrees.

Plus, for legal, medical or top-level business jobs, advanced degrees are required.

You're right about graduate schools, but you can make a very good living with only two years of college, too. E.g., look at nursing schools. In just a few years after graduating from one of these programs, a nurse can easily make 50-60K, some even more. And there are more schools and jobs like that. No need for higher education or huge expenses if you can't afford it.

In other countries this isn't such a huge percent of income.

And how much do you really need to live comfortably? Stay away from the traps of consumerism, and you'll be fine. Learn how to balance your income vs spending. I know quite a few people in US that earn modestly, but live prudently and live well. Too many people believe it's OK to be in debt, but it's about individual choices and personal (financial) responsibility. Otherwise, be prepared to bear the consequences. I would not necessarily blame it on the society, only. Yes, America has put a price tag on everything, but the choice is all yours whether to take it or leave it. If one can't grasp those concepts, they'll struggle financially no matter where they are - in Serbia or US.

The bottom line is - the fact that education is less expensive in other countries doesn't mean that it is always the best way to go. My point was that such (financial) sacrifices are worth it, most of the time.

The University of Ljubljana is an institution with a very rich tradition. With its more than 56,000 undergraduate and post-graduate students, it ranks among the biggest universities in the world scale. A total of 22 faculties, 3 academies of art and 1 university college employ approx. 3500 teaching and research staff, assisted by nearly 900 technical and administrative staff.

Small country, BIG University :-) Number of diplomants doubled to 12% recently but 46% are on social sciences.

Canada has some of the best universities in the world (McGill, Toronto, Queen's, Carleton...) and the tuition is ridiculously low ($4000-$4500 a year, non-medical majors), given that all universities are public. If you want a top-notch education without filing for bankruptcy / paying off your loans for decades, Canada is the best choice.

University of Toronto
McGill

Biased alumni :-) Bahamas are also good with better clima!

Hahaha, no... :-) I think that even if it was not as cheap as it is, it would still be an awesome option to consider... For crying outloud, community colleges in the U.S. cost 5 times as much. Not to mention that the government is ready & willing to fork over for your education at low interest rates w/ a 6-month grace period upon graduation.

You've got top-notch libraries, research facilities, equipment, lecturers... You get to travel (I did anyway) for cheap doing a year abroad... Possibilites are endless -- for $4500 a year! You can earn your B.A. for under $20,000, whereas ONE year in the U.S. costs $30,000 (tuition alone). And the U.S. universities aren't that much better.

What I didn't like was the textbook cartel. The bookstores charge(d) an arm and a leg for the textbooks and offer(ed) you 20% of the price if you were dumb enough to sell them back to the bookstore after using them for 3 months. The government should cap the price at $75 per book and subsidize those costing more than 75. I've seen books cost more than $200 (business/finance majors know this all too well).

I would move back but only if I don't have to live there all the time. I need space, variety, diversity to be 'normal'....

6 months in belgrade and 6 months in US with one month stops in Europe, S. america...maybe to see the land of LOTR's...those sheep's and mountains...

andjelija

I would move back but only if I don't have to live there all the time. I need space, variety, diversity to be 'normal'....

6 months in belgrade and 6 months in US with one month stops in Europe, S. america...maybe to see the land of LOTR's...those sheep's and mountains...

That's exactly the kind of moving back that I have in mind! 6 months in the US is too much. Boring. 1 month for the US + 5 months everywhere else.

Let's get real. Anyone content with their social and professional status abroad has no incentive to move back.

Short of analyzing the current state of affairs in Serbia, just look around this blog, read comments by some of those who live in Serbia and how they feel about those abroad (or anything abroad for that matter). Words such as conservative, aggressive, xenophobic come to mind. I'd like to believe that those are in minority, but the voices of reason are too often stifled. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups...

Let's get real. Anyone content with their social and professional status abroad has no incentive to move back.

And that's the short of it... Quite honestly, I think that I would have left Serbia even if it hadn't been for all the misery of the 90s, and the bad still (way) outweighs the good...

Everything “ugly” said is right. The resentment towards Serbs leaving abroad is very annoying. I find that this resentment comes mostly from self proclaimed liberals and democrats. Such comments used to bother me when I visited Serbia in 2001 after I spent 10 years outside. After two days I realized that I should not give a f@#$ what some self proclaimed intellectuals thing of my immigration status and definitely should not engage in any discussions with such people. As Seinfeld said “the best revenge is living well”

I have to say this is one of the best subjects on this blog in months.

Well, why do you care what other people say? Live your own life.
Anybody in your position would be crazy to go back - Canada and/or the US is much better for people starting family or a career.
To anybody who plans to move back to Serbia and has to work there for living, my advice is - don't. Serbia is great for fun when the weather is good.
And, oh, if you have no other but Serbian passport - then definitely forget about moving back. You'd be stuck in prison, with Velja Ilic and the likes the prison guards.

I live in Canada and I am not planning to come back any time soon. Wife and I worked very hard to build careers here and it