Vojislav Kostunica, the mentally ill and Kosovo

Hugh Griffiths RSS / 03.12.2007. u 13:58

As the no-new news caravan that is Kosovo continues to hog the headlines on a daily basis accompanied by much sound and fury, I’ve started a competition in which all are free to participate.

It’s a spectator sport searching for the politician, businessman, celeb, man-in-the-street etc. who invokes “Kosovo” in a blame game – as an excuse or buck-passing - for something quite unconnected in reality.

My Kosovo blame game nomination for November goes to the leader of the Party of International Law, Vojislav Kostunica, who blamed Kosovo for a report damning Serbia’s mental health institutions in mid-November.

The report, issued by Mental Disability Rights International (MDRI), was pretty rude about the state of Serbia’s mental health services. It can be accessed here, the photos of the children are particularly disturbing. http://www.mdri.org/projects/serbia/Serbia-rep-english.pdf

Kostunica wins November’s blame game nomination because instead of acknowledging the absolutely shocking photos, he attacked the distinguished mental health NGO which had written the report in the first place and went on to blame....Kosovo.

At least according to Reuters which ran a story saying that “Kostunica said the timing of the report, which comes as Serbia battles with the West to prevent the independence of its breakaway province of Kosovo and advance its bid to join the European Union, was "not accidental."

According to government mouthpiece Tanjug, Beta and B92 Kostunica “slammed” the NGO saying "We are witnesses to systematic propaganda against Serbia, loaded with fascist overtones.”

Propaganda...fascism...Kosovo....Crikey, all part of wicked plot, then.

Except if Vojo or his cronies had accessed MDRI’s website and read their other publications, they would have realised that Serbia IS NOT ALONE.

 

MDRI specialises in blasting the mental health services of many countries and has dedicated reports condemning mental health human rights-related abuse in Argentina, Turkey, Peru, Uruguay, Mexico, Russia and Hungary.

 

Oh, and they have also written a damning report about the mental health institutions of another place not under Serbian government control: Kosovo under unmanageable Unmik.

 So there it is.  The human rights of the mentally ill are abused all over the world, not just in Serbia, the only real difference here between Turkey, Peru, Uruguay, Mexico, Russia, Hungary and Serbia is that the responsible Turkish, Peruvian, Mexican, Russian and Hungarian politicians have no Kosovo issue they can try and deflect the responsibility to. Of course, I would be the last person in the world to suggest that the leader of the Party of International Law was engaging in cynical demagoguery, fuelling nationalism and paranoia in an effort to minimise that which his government his responsible for. After all, where is the historical precedent?



Komentari (62)

Komentare je moguće postavljati samo u prvih 7 dana, nakon čega se blog automatski zaključava

Nietzsches Aprentice Nietzsches Aprentice 15:00 03.12.2007

...

Perhaps you might want to start another, spin-off, competition called "Turkish 500 year rule blame game" as well. I hear it often, invoked as an excuse for a myriad of issues permeating social life, sports, all kinds of other stuff. The latest addition to the list of nonsensical arguments I've heard went something along the line of "Serbian soccer player mentality is caused by 500 years under Turks".
dierre dierre 15:40 03.12.2007

Re: ...

TURKEY is no excuse, true, but anyone who thinks it is not the cause of a MYRIAD of issues is completely ignorant when it comes to Serbia and the Serbian society, or for some unfathomable reason pretends to be.

Think about the spirit and nature of the Serbian medieval state compared to the rest of Europe at that time and then fast forward to the 19th century or to today and do the same analysis.

Like I said absolutely no excuse but a good explanation for a lot of things. I sometimes wonder what kind people Serbs would be today if we did not undergo centuries of ruthless occupation by a power that didn't have then and doesn't have now any connection to Europe.
Nietzsches Aprentice Nietzsches Aprentice 15:46 03.12.2007

Re: ...

Granted, what I was referring to were things that really don't have ANY logical connection to Turkish rule. Never did I say that it did not have ANY consequences and, yes, it would be a folly to altogether disregard it. My comment was only that it is being abused for various other occurrences that have little or nothing to do with it.
Hugh Griffiths Hugh Griffiths 19:01 03.12.2007

Re: ...

I have no doubt that 500 years of Turkish occupation, particularly the last 100 during the "enlightenment" experienced by educated classes elsewhere in Europe did have a profound effect in Serbia and provides some contextual influence in sociological/cultural terms.

However, I don't think it has anything to do with the interaction between power and money in the political economy, especially the interaction between the oligarchs, political parties and generously funded secret police.
Ivan Epstajn Ivan Epstajn 22:20 03.12.2007

Re: ...

What about Greece?
Hugh Griffiths Hugh Griffiths 23:26 03.12.2007

Re: ...

the greeks got lucky with all that coastline, but that aside, there is no more Balkan nation than Greece...look how touchy they are about the Macedonia name deal and corruption? don't get me started
Ivan Epstajn Ivan Epstajn 00:31 04.12.2007

Re: ...

Hugh Griffiths
the greeks got lucky with all that coastline, but that aside, there is no more Balkan nation than Greece...look how touchy they are about the Macedonia name deal and corruption? don't get me started


i know what you mean... by the way, why does the EU not count the Greeks among the Balkan nations? Not officially, though...
Igor_Jaramaz Igor_Jaramaz 15:19 03.12.2007

UN Ignored Abuse at Kosovo

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Kosovo/Story/0,,770954,00.html

UN 'ignored' abuse at Kosovo mental homes


Oliver Burkeman in New York
Thursday August 8, 2002
The Guardian

Patients at United Nations mental institutions in Kosovo have been raped and physically attacked under the eyes of UN staff, held in "filthy and degrading" conditions, and threatened with punishment if they report the abuses, according to a damning investigation published in New York yesterday.

In one case, a woman patient was raped after UN employees locked her in a room with a male patient because they wanted to "calm her down", while employees who observed another rape in a hallway said they did not intervene because the victim "must have asked for it", according to the independent campaigning group Mental Disability Rights International (MDRI), which produced the report.

"This is a pervasive pattern of serious abuses. The rule of law simply does not apply within these psychiatric facilities," Dr Eric Rosenthal, MDRI's founder, said yesterday. "We found extreme, inhuman and degrading treatment, arbitrary detention and the physical and sexual assault of women, and we received a blanket denial from the authorities."

Dr Robert Okin, chief psychiatrist at San Francisco's biggest hospital and one of the report's authors, said the UN had "disregarded its own standards for the protection and treatment of the mentally disabled and turned a blind eye to the evidence" at Kosovo's two mental institutions - the Shtime home, which houses 285 patients 19 miles south of Pristina, and the Pristina elderly home - and the Pristina University hospital.

In the course of the two-year study, investigators at Shtime reported finding patients sleeping on concrete floors amid piles of human excrement, or in soiled sheets, and spending their days in apathy, sometimes without clothing, and often with nothing to do. They were given out-of-date psychotropic drugs with no monitoring by experts, because there is no psychiatrist on staff.

In further reports of sexual assault, male patients were allowed to roam the women's wards at night making what one Red Cross worker called "voluntary or involuntary girlfriends".

Kosovo's director of psychiatric institutions told MDRI he did not have the money available to fit a secure door to protect the women's wards, even though funds were available for refurbishment elsewhere in the facility, the group said.

An official at the United Nations Mission in Kosovo (Unmik), which holds overarching responsibility for the government of the former Yugoslav province, admitted the report was "not generally inaccurate".

The campaigners condemned the UN for continuing to fund refurbishment of the institutions instead of integrating the patients into community care programmes, but the official said money was not available for such initiatives. In addition, the patients were mostly ethnic Serbs, while the surrounding community was mostly ethnic Albanian, and the patients might be "abused or killed" if released.

"This is not in any way to excuse the bad circumstances in the institutions, but it's not like New York or California." But the official agreed that many ethnic Albanian staff had "not been trained and probably [were] not very sympathetic" to the patients.

Another UN official said the organisation intended to "explore and examine" individual allegations, but money might prevent it. "The question is, do we have the resources that are sufficient to follow the recommendations in the report?" the official said.

Later, in a statement, Unmik said: "We are in the process of developing special programmes to alert nurses and staff to the issue," adding that "children have been removed from the institution at Shtime and are no longer vulnerable". But "to build up a structure and mechanisms to deal with this phenomenon at the local level... takes time".

Dr Rosenthal said that patients had been warned by staff to keep quiet. "If you say anything bad about the staff, God will kill you," a nurse was reported as telling a patient in front of an MDRI investigator at Pristina University hospital.

Two former patients there, along with a physician working for another organisation, were also threatened by a staff member to prevent them revealing that the staff member had had sexual relationships with the two patients, the report said.

Furthermore, "when women have been diagnosed as mentally ill, they are no longer credible as witnesses to the abuse", said Laura Prescott, one of the report's authors and president of Sister Witness International, a US organisation founded by formerly institutionalised women.

Dr Okin said UN bureaucracy prevented the organisation from hiring a foreign psychiatrist. There were no psychiatrists at Shtime because "the UN is strangled by its own version of a civil service bureaucracy: its pay classification system is such that it won't allow itself to pay for a psychiatrist", he said.

The report, funded by the Open Society Institute with money from financier George Soros, was endorsed by the most respected human rights organisation in the US yesterday. Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch, called it "profoundly important... the horrors it describes are undeniable".
oldtajmer oldtajmer 20:45 03.12.2007

Re: UN Ignored Abuse at Kosovo

Having spent about a week+ in the recovery ward of a pediatric hospital after surgery as a child, and recalling the conditions there, attitudes and treatment from the doctors on down to the nurses, nurse practitioners, as well as the janitors, kitchen staff, etc. - basically we were treated as something between a nuisance and prisoners in a juvenile facility - none of this surprises me much. And remember, my experience dates back about 3 decades, during the so-called Golden Age (according to some) of the Former Yugoslavia.

Talk to any woman who has given birth in this or that country, and you will likely hear of similar treatment. Basically, I think as a society we have a long standing problem with how we treat the 'weak' - i.e. women, children, mental patients, racial and ethnic minorities...
Hugh Griffiths Hugh Griffiths 23:15 03.12.2007

Re: UN Ignored Abuse at Kosovo

it's true. in the UK there are plenty of horror stories about the treatment of the elderly and giving birth can be a unnecessarily uncomfortable experience as well. The money is not spent on the institutions in the right way, companies are paid to build hospitals and cleaning is out-sourced, yet these same hospitals become so dirty that you're likely to pick up a disease inside one. Meanwhile we have our own idiots waving flags and diverting funds that would be better spent on improving the lives of the tax-payer.
mikimedic mikimedic 00:10 04.12.2007

Re: UN Ignored Abuse at Kosovo

undefinedUnlucky you. Really feel sorry. I just wonder how come that my colleague, an Italian, had twins delivered in Belgrade in 1994. His wife was not keen to go to Italy, since the treatment there was not better. And yes, he had quite some reason to be unhappy about it ... the girls were not given Serbian citizenship. And if there is anything that I feel so pissed is that the two italian girls are now walking around without Serbian citizenship, that if anybody they deserve.

Feel sorry for you oldtimer
Virtuelni Vasilije Virtuelni Vasilije 16:18 03.12.2007

real difference


The human rights of the mentally ill are abused all over the world, not just in Serbia, the only real difference here between Turkey, Peru, Uruguay, Mexico, Russia, Hungary and Serbia is that the responsible Turkish, Peruvian, Mexican, Russian and Hungarian politicians have no Kosovo issue they can try and deflect the responsibility to. Of course, I would be the last person in the world to suggest that the leader of the Party of International Law was engaging in cynical demagoguery, fuelling nationalism and paranoia in an effort to minimise that which his government his responsible for.


Hugh,

can you explain us why MDRI in the case of Serbia speaks about "torment, segregation and abuse" and uses title like MDRI Accuses Serbia of Torture and Abuse Against Children and Adults with Disabilities and in the case of EU member Romania much more neutral title ROMANIA VIOLATES RIGHTS OF INFANTS AND CHILDREN WITH DISABILITIES? Although Romanian report is equally (if not more) disturbing???

As you can see at the end of above linked Serbian page there is detailed media coverage in western mainstream media (with similar dramatic headlines) and it seems that Romania was not that interesting (at least not to the same extent)... Why?
mikimedic mikimedic 16:47 03.12.2007

Re: real difference

Hugh,

Perhaps a different ball game. How 'bout for blame game like 'imagine chemical weapons anywhere in the world and bomb the country' ?

You win, no?
Hugh Griffiths Hugh Griffiths 16:52 03.12.2007

Re: real difference

I am not sure if MDRI are harder on the Serbian authorities than the Romanian, they were very tough on UNMIK in Kosovo and rightly so, as another poster has pointed out.

As I am sure you know, NGOs use tough language in reports, especially headlines which are designed to attract media attention as part of well-established campaign strategy. They do this in the hope that media attention will get the electorate interested and shame the authorities into doing something.

In this case, Kostunica and his crew played right into the hands of this strategy by responding in a news-worthy way - linking the issue of mental health to the much more media sexy issue that is Kosovo and talking grandly of propaganda, conspiracy and fascism. This helped generate more media interest in the case of the Serbia report and NGOs are always grateful for publicity as all those links on their web page to subsequent articles demonstrate.

Perhaps all this is just due to the primitivism of DSS and ignorance of how NGOs try and interact with the media to push their agenda with the authorities, but my impression is that harsh words are justified given the lack of money governments in the region (and beyond) assign to the real needs of the mentally ill, the training and salaries of those who are meant to pay for them.

I also think that there is a "feel good" factor at work here with the DSS - blame Kosovo rather than talk of improving the situation as Rasim Ljajic did.

It would be good to get your nominations for Kosovo blame game,

mikimedic mikimedic 16:55 03.12.2007

Re: real difference

I wonder if there is an MDRI report on Iraq?
Brooklyn Brooklyn 17:18 03.12.2007

Re: real difference

I wonder if there is an MDRI report on Iraq?


why? are iraqi disabled children more important to you than serbian disabled children? or are you perhaps better able to help iraqi children so that's why you're asking?
mikimedic mikimedic 17:32 03.12.2007

Re: real difference

I care about Iraqi children as much as I do for Serbian. That's where I differ from Hugh and you Brooklyn, obviously you only care about Serbian....

In Europe and America, there is a growing feeling of histeria...
Brooklyn Brooklyn 17:42 03.12.2007

Re: real difference

I care about Iraqi children as much as I do for Serbian.


that's very admirable. i'll help with locating a report. here


i'm sure you'll do a lot to help iraqi children, like you've surely done a lot to help serbian children in need. keep us posted on your good work.
Dax Dax 17:43 03.12.2007

real difference

Vojislav Kostunica who is mentally ill and Kosovo.
This would be a better headline.
The last thing that someone should do when is guilty is to accuse an NGO for seeing bad treatment of sick people.But to be honest it is Kostunica's very known temper.

Oh, and they have also written a damning report about the mental health institutions of another place not under Serbian government control: Kosovo under unmanageable Unmik.
This is not important to him 'cause it is all "propaganda".
njegos njegos 18:15 03.12.2007

Re: real difference

I haven't seen any press coverage of the report on Romania... Serbia's situation was in all headlines. I highlight the word "torture" - doesn't sound much neutral...
mikimedic mikimedic 18:19 03.12.2007

Re: real difference

I just wonder Brooklyn, if let's say BBC or similar had similar blog allowing Serbs to comment on British hunt for chemical weapons in Iraq. You surely helped a lot of Iraqi children by this quest. And I especially admire new blame game -- if the sky is grey, it is all Putin's fault....
Hugh Griffiths Hugh Griffiths 18:44 03.12.2007

Re: real difference

sadly mikimedic, the game you mention is over very quickly, since the idiots involved in that one are clearly identifiable, all their mantras endlessly repeated on CNN etc.
Hugh Griffiths Hugh Griffiths 19:06 03.12.2007

Re: real difference

ah Njegos, sadly something was lost in translation in the Serbian media....the title of the report was not "Torture not Treatment" but "Torment not Treatment".

Torture gets mentioned later on in terms of "tantamount", but I don't believe this is a criticism labelled at Serbia per se (just look at all the rude things they wrote about the state of play in their Kosovo report), rather an attempt to cause a reaction that will lead to some improvements in the mental health institutions. Which are really awful. For Serbs. And children. In those places.
njegos njegos 19:14 03.12.2007

Re: real difference

Well, it sure did lead to something, but that something wasn't improvement - it led to news headlines such as "Serbia tortures children" etc. Just see the british channel4 report...
oldtajmer oldtajmer 20:49 03.12.2007

Re: real difference

Perhaps all this is just due to the primitivism of DSS and ignorance of how NGOs try and interact with the media to push their agenda with the authorities, but my impression is that harsh words are justified given the lack of money governments in the region (and beyond) assign to the real needs of the mentally ill, the training and salaries of those who are meant to pay for them.


Spot on! To those unhappy with this sentiment, I would say - don't take it personally. I know a lot of adrenaline is produced when you think that your own people could be part of something like this. Try and focus it on doing something positive about things like this!
vladimir petrovic vladimir petrovic 21:08 03.12.2007

Re: real difference

Dax,
Do you say that Kostunica is mentally ill? Be civilized, pls.Otherways, I'm worried about your own mental health!
mikimedic mikimedic 00:54 04.12.2007

Re: real difference

Can you identify these idiots, Hugh? thanks in advance.
semele semele 18:05 03.12.2007

The Hyenas attack yet again. Rats follow.

That the next round of attacks on the Serbs and everything Serbian has started is obvious from your title. No nead to read the small print in this case.

A certain Gerald Warner (for whom an internet search says: "graduated in 1954 and joined the Diplomatic Service in the Intelligence Branch" wrote yesterday for the Scotsman.com News.


The Kosovo question is, at first blush, intensely complicated. Yet, like most such international and ethnic contentions, it is at root quite simple. Serbia claims sovereignty over Kosovo, even though 90% of the population are ethnic Albanians who viscerally detest the Serbs. Nor does it help that Serbia's most recent mechanism for asserting sovereignty was the rape of 20,000 Albanian women and the massacre of their menfolk.


In any case, Serbia is a rogue state whose government cynically provoked the First World War by assassinating the heir to the Austrian throne through the intermediary of a secret society and which, alone among the belligerents on either side, emerged with its territory and status greatly enlarged and its war aims fulfilled.

More recently, its savage conduct in the Balkans provokes the question whether the Serbs are fit to govern themselves, let alone anybody else.

Under normal circumstances, the resolution of the Kosovo question would be simple: a declaration of independence on December 10, recognised by the United Nations and the European Union, leading to a normalisation of life there and an inflow of investment. The circumstances, however, are not normal. Russia has appointed itself the patron of Serbia and in that capacity is mischief-making in the Balkans. This is a return to the old Tsarist doctrine of Pan-Slavism. Where formerly the Soviet Union justified its aggressions into European states as the performance of its "internationalist duty to defend the gains of socialism", Russia today has reverted to the role of protector of all Slav nations.

Putin is following the foreign policy of Nicholas I. It was a menace to Europe then and it is a menace now. From tonight, Putin is likely to be strengthened by a sweeping election victory fuelled by the domestic perception of him as a strong and ruthless leader (which Russians masochistically adore) and nationalist chauvinism. David Cameron rightly said: "There is a crisis developing in the Balkans and we must act now to prevent it, in the interests of national security not just in that region but around the world."



On thing has not changed since 1848 and that is the English finger in someone else's pie.
mikimedic mikimedic 18:24 03.12.2007

Re: The Hyenas attack yet again. Rats follow.

Semele,

I'd love to see a blog on BBC or other British media where atrocities in Northern Ireland are discussed.
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 18:47 03.12.2007

Re: The Hyenas attack yet again. Rats foll

That the next round of attacks on the Serbs and everything Serbian has started is obvious from your title

Such a splendid example of your 90's homeland security rhetorics intoxication.
Well a lot of people write a lot of things on the Internet and why should one take it for granted. Why should one consider as important what a Gerald Warner wrote and even more importantly why should it be any proof for anybody' prejudice, including yours.As for the fact that the guy was in the intelligence, let's not jump o conclusions for what could one conclude about daddy's party from your writing on this blog.?
Hugh Griffiths Hugh Griffiths 18:53 03.12.2007

Re: The Hyenas attack yet again. Rats follow.

well Semele, you're certainly right about the English being very pro-active were diplomacy and foreign policy is concerned. "punching above one's weight" was I think the phrase used by then UK foreign secretary Douglas Hurd before he resigned to join NatWest markets to help negotiate Slobo's sale of Telekom Serbia to, ahem, the Italians which provide Slobo's doughnut boys with the salaries to beat the opposition for another year or two back in the 1990s.

The point I am making is that where former British diplomats are concerned, for every guy writing something like the piece you cite in the Scotsman, there are least three, if not four English ex-diplomats who are real Serbo-philes, writing letters to the Times about Serbia holding on to Kosovo.

In the end, though, you're right not to trust the emissaries of foreign powers, because like Putin, Slobo, Tudjman, Susak and Vojo, they don't really care about the people living in Strpce, Knin, Sanski Most, Kamenica, Srebrenica or Sarajevo.
Hugh Griffiths Hugh Griffiths 19:18 03.12.2007

Re: The Hyenas attack yet again. Rats follow.

Semele, I am not attacking "the Serbs and everything Serbian", but gently poking fun and inviting others to join with examples from their own.

Kostunica, despite his control of the MUP and BIA these past few years got very few votes in the last election. Him and the party of highway robbery are at best entertaining and he certainly doesn't embody the "everything Serbian" I know.

He would not be prime minister were it not for the fact that he scares the democrats and the "international community" with the prospect of Seselj, the gravedigger and that mob. But hang on, didn't Slobo used to do the same thing?

adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 19:22 03.12.2007

Re: The Hyenas attack yet again. Rats foll

But hang on, didn't Slobo used to do the same thing?

He sure did and he finally ended up in a coalition with them.
I daresay this is the same pattern.
vladimir petrovic vladimir petrovic 21:12 03.12.2007

Re: The Hyenas attack yet again. Rats follow.

Hugh,
Next time, we're going to ask you and your mentors to tell us whom should we have as Prime Minister.
Are you member of that bloody International Crisis Group?
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 21:25 03.12.2007

Re: The Hyenas attack yet again. Rats foll

we're going to ask you and your mentors

Another bad case of homeland security rhetorics from the 90's.Your people are like reservoirs of toxic indoctrination.
semele semele 22:26 03.12.2007

The Hyenas attack yet again. Rats follow.

In the end, though, you're right not to trust the emissaries of foreign powers, because like Putin, Slobo, Tudjman, Susak and Vojo, they don't really care about the people living in Strpce, Knin, Sanski Most, Kamenica, Srebrenica or Sarajevo.


Sure Hugh C.I.A. Griffiths. You got me hypnotized. I believe that you are working in the interests of the people living in Ar-Ramādī, Al-Baṣrah, Al-Muthannā As-Samāwah, Al-Qādisiyah, Ad-Dīwānīyah, An-Najaf, An-Najaf, As-Sulaymānīyah, As-Sulaymānīyah, Kirkūk Al-Ḥillah, Baghdād, Dahūk, An-Nāṣirīyah, Ba'qūbah, Irbīl, Karbalā, Al-'Amārah, Al-Mawṣil, Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn,and Wasiṭ.

Err. D'ont get me wrong. I am not an Islamist, so no need to alert your pro-active agencies around the world.
vladimir petrovic vladimir petrovic 22:28 03.12.2007

Re: The Hyenas attack yet again. Rats follow.

Hugh!
You enjoy exagerating things. You say: Kostunica, despite his control of the MUP and BIA these past few years got very few votes in the last election.
It's a pure non-sense. What Kostunica's control of MUP and BIA has to do with fair and free elections? What's the matter with you, man?
On the other hand, who gives you the right to say “Slobo” when addressing our former president Slobodan Milosevic? Would you find it proper if I address the British Queen as “Liz” or the French President Nicolas Sarkozy as “Nick”? Your sense of humour is weird, isn’t it?
Of course, you have the right to dislike our Prime Minister Kostunica, or even a member of his cabinet (whom you dare charge for the so-called highway robbery) but I’d beg you to try to discuss serious matters in a decent manner…
semele semele 22:50 03.12.2007

The Hyenas attack yet again. Rats follow.

The point I am making is that where former British diplomats are concerned, for every guy writing something like the piece you cite in the Scotsman, there are least three, if not four English ex-diplomats who are real Serbo-philes, writing letters to the Times about Serbia holding on to Kosovo.


Who are you kidding? Adam? Send me a few names of these English ex-diplomats who are publicly sticking out their necks. There are no Serbophiles among the treacherous English. Sir Alfred Sherman died in 2006 and he was not quite "English". Shame isn't it?
Hugh Griffiths Hugh Griffiths 23:22 03.12.2007

Re: The Hyenas attack yet again. Rats follow.

Dear Vladimir, Unfortunately that's happened already. Back in January 2004 I was at the parliament talking to a DSS MP who said the DSS had had a meeting with the First Secretary of the US embassy at the time. I'll give you a clue - his second name is that of a colour. According to the DSS MP the US diplomat told the DSS they could form a coalition with whomever they liked, including Slobo's lot, the SPS. The only people the DSS could not include were the radicals. All came to pass.

So there's no need for humble me to tell you whom you should have as prime minister, 'cos it's already being done for you. Although if you want my opinion, you should elect Natasa Kandic, because unlike Vojo and the other windbags who talk about international law, that woman has got real balls. She would also improve Serbia's image in the world.
Hugh Griffiths Hugh Griffiths 23:40 03.12.2007

Re: The Hyenas attack yet again. Rats follow.

Control of the BIA means that you get to listen to more phone calls made by more MPs, oligarchs and gangsters than anybody else, which gives you an idea of what their plans are, politically.

Control of the police (and until this year, the justice ministry) means you get to influence which oligarchs have to leave the country in a hurry because there are warrants for their arrest, in this case Bogoljub Karic who, purely by coincidence had formed a political party which was going to take votes from the DSS at the next election. There are many, many, many more examples.

Re: Liz n' Nick, feel free to call them anything you want, man. It's a democracy.

Regarding Slobo, believe me when I say that I am being polite when I refer to him as Slobo. The guy was one of those murdering fascists that Vojo was jabbering about.
mikimedic mikimedic 01:04 04.12.2007

Re: The Hyenas attack yet again. Rats foll

Another bad case of homeland security rhetorics from the 90's


When there is nothing to say, the word 'rhetorics' comes into play. The above quote is a perfect example of the rhetoric in fact you think you are talking about.
vladimir petrovic vladimir petrovic 10:49 04.12.2007

Re: The Hyenas attack yet again. Rats foll

Adam, I regret if my mentioning "mentors" sounded a bit as "bad rhetorics from the 90's", but if Hugh is member of the International Crisis Group then they definitely have MENTORS, it's not just a naive, good-intentional NGO... Sauve qui peut!
Domazet Domazet 19:28 03.12.2007

Hugh, my boy...

... it seems that your texts provoke dominantly negative reactions, with the exception of few 'bwana' types (Adam etc.). Any explanation?

And also, do you routinely attribute foreign political parties as ‘primitive’?
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 19:37 03.12.2007

Re: Hugh, my boy...

Domazet
... it seems that your texts provoke dominantly negative reactions, with the exception of few 'bwana' types (Adam etc.). Any explanation?

And also, do you routinely attribute foreign political parties as ‘primitive’?

Well I was expecting you' show up but I' m disappointed at your performance. I was expecting you'd write ad least a tedious sheet addressing the author as "her majesty's subject". Well I guess you're getting on
Hugh Griffiths Hugh Griffiths 20:03 03.12.2007

Re: Hugh, my boy...

well Domazet, I am all for reactions that contribute to the debate and quite frankly anything is better than this endless Kabuki of non-news that is Kosovo right now. Plus the B92 blog forum is truly unique in that here is the best media outlet in the Balkans hosting so many bloggers capable of arguing better than I in a language is that is more often than not, not their native tongue. So yes, I am happy with negative reactions.

To answer your other question, I don't routinely label foreign political parties as "primitive", but we're talking about the DSS here. They're allied with Velimir Ilic and the party of highway robbery and Suljeman Ugljanin's extended family in the Sandzak, I mean these guys are papac. Are you suggesting we label this unlikely coalition "sophisticated" instead, or "honest" or something? I am open to suggestions.

Domazet Domazet 21:48 03.12.2007

Is that so?

Hugh Griffiths
well Domazet, I am all for reactions that contribute to the debate and quite frankly anything is better than this endless Kabuki of non-news that is Kosovo right now. Plus the B92 blog forum is truly unique in that here is the best media outlet in the Balkans hosting so many bloggers capable of arguing better than I in a language is that is more often than not, not their native tongue. So yes, I am happy with negative reactions.

To answer your other question, I don't routinely label foreign political parties as "primitive", but we're talking about the DSS here. They're allied with Velimir Ilic and the party of highway robbery and Suljeman Ugljanin's extended family in the Sandzak, I mean these guys are papac. Are you suggesting we label this unlikely coalition "sophisticated" instead, or "honest" or something? I am open to suggestions.
Hugh, I'm really happy that you are really happy with the reactions you get.

Also, thank you for answering my other question. If I understand well, you are labeling DSS as ‘primitive’ due to the lack of better words (I do agree that calling them ‘sophisticated’ and/or ‘honest’ might be a bit of exaggeration)? Well, I don’t know what to say, I’m on a bit of disadvantage here. As you probably noticed, English is my second language and I don’t hold myself to be an expert. But, I still tend to believe that there must be some other term, something between the ‘primitive’ and those alternatives of yours. Take yourself as an example. You can hardly be described as primitive. But you still do not insist that we consider you to be ‘honest’ and/or ‘sophisticated’, do you? So if you could help me to better describe you, I might be able to suggest a better term for DSS. What do you say?

Hugh Griffiths Hugh Griffiths 23:05 03.12.2007

Re: Is that so?

I think there is a mis-understanding here, I am saying that the DSS is primitive. Primitive because they lack any sense of irony, balance or context.

While the Party of International Law go on and on and on about international law and Kosovo, the two best known pictures of their leader are of Vojo brandishing a Kalash down in Kosovo and of watching the bombardment of Sarajevo from Ratko Mladic's positions up on the hill. Strangely enough we heard no mention of international law from Vojo back then, which makes his bleating about the law seem absurdly hollow now.

As for me, I like writing. I am not perfect, but don't go around making up stories about Kosovo to deflect attention from the horrible suffering of children in mental health institutions. This is primitive demagoguery.

You write English like a native, why don't you go back to Serbia, the DSS need more people with English language skills. And some dress-sense advisors

semele semele 23:18 03.12.2007

Re: Is that so?

Every smart Serb will be voting for the Radicals in the next election in a protest vote against the English and American hyenas. We got nothing to loose while you have to maintain your global insterests.

You have to come up with a much better story than corruption. Sure, everyone is corrupt. And no matter what we do, your nitwit reporters will brand us as corrupt.

The British and the US are number one corrupters historically and currently. Think 27 March 1941 Belgrade, or think about the "hidden weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq.

Hugh, take my advice. Ask for redeployment. Perhaps independent Dardania would suit you better, or the post isn't open yet!?
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 23:21 03.12.2007

Re: Is that so?

We got nothing to loose while you have to maintain your global insterests.

Exept a few loose screws
Domazet Domazet 00:38 04.12.2007

Talking about mis-understandings...

You write English like a native, why don't you go back to Serbia, the DSS need more people with English language skills. And some dress-sense advisors


...I hope that this was not intended as an insult to Native Americans; all of them (at least the ones that I met) speak English way better than me.

Also, I’m a bit disappointed that you refuse to cooperate in finding a better term for DSS. But I do find your idea about me coming back to Serbia intriguing. With minor corrections though. I tend to think that LDP could use my services better. I don’t think that, with me in their team, a howler like the one with the ‘memo’ could happen. Also, they might pay better. What do you say?

On a completely unrelated note, I would suggest that you do not insist too doggedly on my coming back. If I were you I would leave that to Adam (one good use of him). When he says things like that then he sounds a bit green with envy and nothing more. You know, he is from where he is so…On the other hand, somebody definitely not primitive like you might sound a bit xenophobic. And a bit of anti-globalist (you now, that rant against free flow of skilled labor and such…).
mikimedic mikimedic 01:11 04.12.2007

Re: Is that so?

Is that so?

I would label as primitive parties that can ifnluence bombing of a sovereign country, and certainly I would not label them a pary of 'International law'. And you , Hugh, why don't you go back to your Majesty, in your nicely tailored suit? Serb people surely would be happier once you are gone.
mikimedic mikimedic 01:19 04.12.2007

Re: Is that so?

Surely you are ok Adam with Screws, or Screwing? Like the forces of your Majesty. Excuse my English, after all it is my second language (yours is first, and the only??). So I am not sure whether you have lOOst any screws along the way, or you got screwed on your way. But surely there is a garage to have it fixed and hit the road, Jack... surely you know how it goes on...
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 08:28 04.12.2007

Re: Is that so?

Wow, mikimedic judging by the number of your post there must've been a happy hour in Palmoticeva last night
mikimedic mikimedic 10:24 04.12.2007

Re: Is that so?

Dear Adam,

Your last post really deserves no comment. And as for me, I was only trying to make an allusion to your cynicisms shown above, especially when you invoke on people whose second language is English - typos such as 'loose'. If that is your strongest argument against serious comment, I have nothing further to say. That posting, as well as the one above illustrate more what kind of person you are then anything else.

For both Hugh and yourself -- personally, I shall never go to London to spit on English people there. I can have my views, but in general I do admire Brits (with exceptions) for their traditional values, culture and last but not the least, the sense of humour. My personal heroes are the Trotters brothers. But I dislike those Brits having no better thing to do in their life then coming to Belgrade (or elsewhere) and spit on the country that warmly welcomed them.

A gentlemen will walk but never run. But I am not sure that the true meaning of these words written by the real English gentlemen can get to you.

And for me, this will exhaust my blogging experience in answering to your comments. If you ever commented on substantial issues (like for example, atrocities committed in Northern Ireland) I would be happy to continue our discussion. However, your last couple of comments indeed deserve no comment and rather resemble your state of mind.

With best regards.


adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 11:01 04.12.2007

Re: Is that so?

And as for me, I was only trying to make an allusion to your cynicisms shown above, especially when you invoke on people whose second language is English - typos such as 'loose'.

Well English is my second language as well, and it has nothing to do with it. It has a lot to do with with Semel the Bun and her state of mind though or do you find:
Every smart Serb will be voting for the Radicals in the next election in a protest vote against the English and American hyenas.

normal and acceptable and the Bun is well known for similar outbursts.

For both Hugh and yourself -- personally, I shall never go to London to spit on English people there

Neither shall I for I'm a Serbian.

But I dislike those Brits having no better thing to do in their life then coming to Belgrade (or elsewhere) and spit on the country that warmly welcomed them.

Since when is Kostunica=Srbija?As for the "spitting on your country" part it's where you and I differ for I see it as tough love.
If you ever commented on substantial issues (like for example, atrocities committed in Northern Ireland) I would be happy to continue our discussion

And you don't find the tretment of the mentally ill an important subject?
However, your last couple of comments indeed deserve no comment and rather resemble your state of mind.

Likewise.
jankovicf jankovicf 23:24 03.12.2007

MDRI is objective?!?!

One thing is to try to help someone by creating a report on conditions in institutions for mentally disabled people and a completely another one to publish shocking pictures of "tortured" children in foreign agencies like Reuters or CNN and, in the manner of a low-budget primitive tabloid, explain the world that Serbia is a horrible place and that the mentally disabled children are being tortured, which is thank God not true.
On the other hand, I disagree with Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica too. His answer to everything bad that happens is that it is all just the part of the "evil plot to destroy Serbia and its orthodox people". Agencies and NGOs like CNN and MDRI are expected to constantly bring new scandal and shocking "facts" about horrible things that happen to people who don't live in the USA. American media is leading a strong propaganda for life in America and is convincing people that everything outside America sucks and that they should stay in America and not worry cause the Government will take care of (control) their lives. It's classical BigBrotherish thing - desperately trying to save the American (capitalistic) system (similarly to how the Roman Empire tried to save their system). This doesn't only apply to USA but to today's society in whole.
People should spend more time reading George Orwell instead of being shaped by the massive media.
s56a s56a 11:16 04.12.2007

Enemies

Think 27 March 1941 Belgrade, or think about the "hidden weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq.

You might also think about "controled" Gavrilo Princip and his lucky shot in Sarajevo!

I met one of the founding members of Radical party in Belgrade last week with doctorate degree in bio-genetics. He claims that English are the arch enemy of Serbia with main justification of Tito being their Free Mason! DSS just wear a tie and scores cheap political points on Kosovo myths.
Hugh Griffiths Hugh Griffiths 12:31 04.12.2007

Re: Enemies

My favourite conspiracy vis a vis the English is the one about how they replaced Tito during World War II. One day Tito was this guy who could not play the piano, the next day he could play the piano ! This was clearly London's doing.
mikimedic mikimedic 15:53 04.12.2007

Re: Enemies

It wasn't London doing, it was London Calling. Rock the Casbah.
Domazet Domazet 17:28 04.12.2007

Re: Enemies

s56a
Think 27 March 1941 Belgrade, or think about the "hidden weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq.

You might also think about "controled" Gavrilo Princip and his lucky shot in Sarajevo!

I met one of the founding members of Radical party in Belgrade last week with doctorate degree in bio-genetics. He claims that English are the arch enemy of Serbia with main justification of Tito being their Free Mason! DSS just wear a tie and scores cheap political points on Kosovo myths.
I don’t see a correlation between this man’s doctorate and his beliefs. He might just be an avid reader of Borislav Pekic.
s56a s56a 22:56 04.12.2007

Re: Enemies

Doctorate in science means greater attention to facts instead od fiction! He argued with selective references.

Seselj and Vucic are also educated manipulators!
Domazet Domazet 01:48 05.12.2007

This may come to you as a surprise ...

s56a
Doctorate in science means greater attention to facts instead od fiction! He argued with selective references.Seselj and Vucic are also educated manipulators!
...but Pekic did not write only fiction.

Arhiva

   

Kategorije aktivne u poslednjih 7 dana