Društvo| Lingvistika

Speak Warriors!

Chris Farmer RSS / 09.12.2011. u 11:50

TlhIngan maH! Kai kassai!

In my continuing quest to learn the Serbian language (a quest which is often interrupted and curtailed by intervening events, obligations, and Tuesdays), I have come to realize that I have overlooked an essential part of learning this language that has nothing to do with my six-word vocabulary, my mastery of one tense and one grammatical case, or my inability to deal with multiple declensions.

Attitude.

If you have never heard of Star Trek, the Klingon Empire, or Kahless the Unforgettable, you may want to open a new tab and do some research before continuing. The fact is that, as a spoken language, Serbian must be enunciated and bellowed out like Klingon. Sentences are marked by exclamation marks. Words declaratively expressed in CAPITAL LETTERS! The Klingon does not brook the mealy-mouthed, the overly polite, the sycophantic, or the obsequious. In fact, the language may not even contain equivalents to these words.

Imagine, if you will, the scene in the restaurant. The room is crowded and only one or two waiters hover among the tables. You (meaning me, the Anglo-Saxon) are thirsty. You raise your hand tentatively, attracting exactly NO attention. The waiters dive and swoop around you without knowing you are there. You then assert yourself with a timid, "Excuse me?"

Nothing.

After about fifteen minutes of this pantomime, he finally happens to be near you and you state your request: "Excuse me, but if you would not mind, if you happen to be passing by the kitchen and if it is not any trouble, I would appreciate a glass of water, please. When you get around to it, next time you are near the table. Thank you."

Before you have completed your request, however, the waiter has completely lost interest and has flitted off to another, more decisive table. Without knowing, you have committed the unforgiveable offense of being inoffensive. It is not that that waiter actually wants you to be rude; it is just that he understands the rude and the peremptory much better. The flurry of Niceness which you have spread into the air between yourself and the waiter only gets in his eyes, and he does not know what you want until you have littered the order with 36 unnecessary words. Consequently, and having no time to work it out, he removes himself.

Imagine the same scene, however, sung in a different key. You are thirsty. You declare yourself. You cry out "DECKO!" This is already upsetting your Anglo Saxon sensibilities as you are referring to man who may be more than one decade your senior as "boy." Try SEFE! (chief) instead.

"Water!"

"More blood wine!" cries the Klingon warrior. And he slams his fist upon the table, breaking out in a laugh which fills the entire room. The waiter will arrive instantly. He will smile with you, he will nod, and within an instant drop off a glass of water on the table. This exchange consisted of two words, an optional gesture, and lasted about three minutes. And no one was put out or offended. The mealy-mouthed and polite Anglo Saxon way required several full paragraphs (with footnotes and disclaimers), nearly 20 minutes, and in the end, a bitter taste in your mouth and an annoyed waiter (who may never return to your table again).

It is in the attitude. It is the assertive natural tone of the language. Speak loudly Warriors! Speak clearly and proudly! Use fewer words! It is the way! It is OUR way!

I would only ask, if it is not a problem, and only if you think of it at the time, NOT to mention where you heard all this if you attempt a practical application. My bat'leth is in the shop being sharpened this week.

Atačmenti



Komentari (48)

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yugaya yugaya 12:27 09.12.2011

:)

You know ...these things tend to rub off on you after a while...
Chris Farmer Chris Farmer 15:55 09.12.2011

Re: :)

yugaya
You know ...these things tend to rub off on you after a while...

Agreed! I am sure that I would be received as a Klingon back in Iowa after 10 years here!
jinks jinks 12:52 09.12.2011

...

The mealy-mouthed and polite Anglo Saxon way




Chris Farmer Chris Farmer 15:57 09.12.2011

Re: ...

jinks
The mealy-mouthed and polite Anglo Saxon way





Perfect! Even if Rowan Atkinson is among my favorites, maybe Hugh Grant would be the only better example!
jednatanja jednatanja 12:56 09.12.2011

:)))

Quite a difference to this meal:

Smile "How´re you all doing here?" Smile...2 min... "Can I take your order, please?" Smile...5 min... Smile "Everything all right here?" (x5) Smile "Can I get you anything else?" Smile "You guys have a nice evening!" Smile

p.s.


Chris Farmer Chris Farmer 15:59 09.12.2011

Re: :)))

jednatanja
Quite a difference to this meal:

Smile "How´re you all doing here?" Smile...2 min... "Can I take your order, please?" Smile...5 min... Smile "Everything all right here?" (x5) Smile "Can I get you anything else?" Smile "You guys have a nice evening!" Smile

p.s.



When they have time, between the smiles and stereotypically sugary platitudes, they do eventually serve you. Maybe it is an appetite-building gimmick.

Noted for further contemplation.
kalifumestokalifa kalifumestokalifa 13:13 09.12.2011

Niceties

"Excuse me!" and "Could you please..." Would be enough niceties, anything more will loose you my interest as well. We've got a collective ADHD here.

I agree, that linguistic niceties serve as a sort of social lubricant but there's a point of diminishing returns with almost everything in life.

As for learning Serbian coming from English, I commiserate with you.
I had a very hard time learning Russian, Latin and French and I'm used to declinations and whatnot.

Plus unlike learning English for me, learning Serbian for you has only limited applicability. Once you leave Serbia it'll only serve as a party trick.
Chris Farmer Chris Farmer 16:03 09.12.2011

Re: Niceties

kalifumestokalifa
"Excuse me!" and "Could you please..." Would be enough niceties, anything more will loose you my interest as well. We've got a collective ADHD here.

I agree, that linguistic niceties serve as a sort of social lubricant but there's a point of diminishing returns with almost everything in life.

As for learning Serbian coming from English, I commiserate with you.
I had a very hard time learning Russian, Latin and French and I'm used to declinations and whatnot.

Plus unlike learning English for me, learning Serbian for you has only limited applicability. Once you leave Serbia it'll only serve as a party trick.


Social lubricants (nicely phrased, by the way), as with any kind of lubricant, are not always needed. Sadly, they are ingrained in our culture and, as such, are hard to root out...
mitar.popovic mitar.popovic 14:29 09.12.2011

Klingons



Though I never really watched Star Treck, one of my best buddies is a huge follower an he also happens to be a conspiracy theorist. Among other claims, he periodically goes on rants drawing parallels between Klingons and Serbians, and claims that the all-wise creators of Star Treck exactly meant Klingons to be a representation of Serbians (or reluctantly he might admit Slavs at large). This however doesn't offend him at all, in fact his bad-ass sensibilites are flattered because apparently Klingons are likable people (though I have no idea never watched) and they are given this cosmic significance simply by existing in the series. His attitude is impossible to find in Serbia though, because my buddy is a second generation Serbian Canadian.

As for rudeness in Serbia, I'd like to rationalize it as a cultural quirk, but that would be just wishful thinking. Besides, not being an Anglo-Saxon I'm less inclined towards political correctness and more towards calling a spade a spade, regardless of how self unconscious or self-righteous my views are and how many feelings I hurt.
Chris Farmer Chris Farmer 16:07 09.12.2011

Re: Klingons

The Klingon is, in fact, a noble creature. His life and comportment are based on honor and pride. He is steadfastly loyal, keeps his word, and does not hide agendas. No wonder his speech is loud and prominent.

Ask your friend about the duplicitous Romulans. How much more do they speak like the Anglo Saxon….

Rudeness, as you imply, is on a sliding scale. What is plain-spoken to one, is unacceptably rude to another.
mitar.popovic mitar.popovic 16:46 09.12.2011

Re: Klingons



Still though, you have to admit that sometimes plain-spokeness is totally uncalled for and crosses the line. The fact that no harm was (consciously) intended makes it even more inexplicable. Like in this scenario:




But the background to Serbian and Russian world-famous bluntness is not that hard to explain, just like Western "deviousness". and it is at least partly due to communist history. Good manners were seen as insincere burgeois affectations, and cursing was something like proclamation of belonging and loyalty to the proleteriat. Following that idea, soon enough bad manners in Eastern Europe became nothing short of proof of good citizenship. And this is where the key difference in attitude lies; though people in the West curse no one in the West ever thought of cursing or lack of manners in general as acts of good citizenship.
Chris Farmer Chris Farmer 16:54 09.12.2011

Re: Klingons

I have often had this argument. There are those who would classify this kind of plain-spokenness as "honest". I disagree.

There is a difference between telling a waiter BRING ME WATER and HEY YOU ARE FAT. The former is blunt and peremptory, but serves a purpose. The latter may be true, and it may be a very honest thing to say, but for my money it falls out of the rude category and into the realm of the sociopath.

Beyond being rude, it is just the lack of verbal editing that is in question here...

mitar.popovic mitar.popovic 17:10 09.12.2011

Re: Klingons



Verbal editing?

Sounds like a fancy-schmancy term for being considerate, i.e. caring for and respecting your neighbour.
Chris Farmer Chris Farmer 17:18 09.12.2011

Re: Klingons

mitar.popovic


Verbal editing?

Sounds like a fancy-schmancy term for being considerate, i.e. caring for and respecting your neighbour.


Think of it as "just because you THINK it, you are not obliged to SAY it."
mitar.popovic mitar.popovic 19:07 09.12.2011

Re: Klingons


The problem is how one thinks. I may think, "jeez, that lady is fat", and just not dwell on the fact. Or I may think that putting down this woman verbally would be a great opportunity to point out my (our) perceived superiority. It's the latter that's sadly more often the case when it comes to lack of "verbal editing" in Serbia, where kindness in everyday situations is taken for weakness very quickly and much more often than in the West.

For so many uneducated people in former Yugoslavia kindness is simply not a virtue, though audacity and frankness, however misplaced, may be. If you are not in a position of power and you show kindness, you will be ignored like you were at the bar. If you show kindness in a position of authority, where everyone has to look at you, confusion and/or resentment will ensue. Around here cockiness is necessary for effective leadership, so politeness is queer.

Since powerful persons here have traditionally reached their positions in all kinds of "rough" ways, people will wonder why such persons pretend to be nice when their status clearly proves otherwise. Thus politeness in the powerful is interpreted as insincerity, deviousness, or mockery of everyone's intelligence.

Nevertheless, you text is hilarious
pinnochio pinnochio 01:55 12.12.2011

Re: Klingons

mitar.popovic

The problem is how one thinks. I may think, "jeez, that lady is fat", and just not dwell on the fact. Or I may think that putting down this woman verbally would be a great opportunity to point out my (our) perceived superiority. It's the latter that's sadly more often the case when it comes to lack of "verbal editing" in Serbia, where kindness in everyday situations is taken for weakness very quickly and much more often than in the West.


It's a very interesting point, especially regarding the treatment of women in Serbian society.

Serbian culture has two accepted female roles: the self-sacrificing mother or sister, and the "sex toy" (or splav bimbo). Woman's worth is measured through fulfillment of those roles. Serbian male establishes his power and superiority over women he deems undesirable as toys by shaming and belittling them over their appearance, but he will fly off the handle if somebody did the same to his mother or sister. Deep down, Serbian male is unable to see any human value of women outside of those accepted roles. If she is deemed undesirable as toy, Serbian male will feel compelled to inform her and "put her in her place".

Here's an example of incomprehensible hate speech and anger provoked by a fairly innocent video of dancing girls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrOlJnkHbyA
Some of the posters were Serbian males older than 30 who had no better things to do than to respond in this manner.
mitar.popovic mitar.popovic 04:38 12.12.2011

Re: Klingons



I saw the clip and read the comments and yes, it's an excellent example. You can always count on Youtube comments to diminish your faith in humankind in general, but even the meanest and most good looking Canadian guys I know would surely feel no urge to hate on those girls like that.

And I completely agree with your two acceptable roles analysis.

Also, from my experience if you were to bring up this topic (i.e. discrimination based on looks) with those type of Serbian guys, their reply would be something along the lines that Serbians simply have higher standards because we are better looking people. It might go even further and lead you to the idea that we are better looking because we have historically marginalized the ugly among us and thus either forced them to take care of their looks or prevented them from multiplying.
Anonimni Pojedinac Anonimni Pojedinac 16:03 12.12.2011

Re: Klingons

pinnochio
mitar.popovic

The problem is how one thinks. I may think, "jeez, that lady is fat", and just not dwell on the fact. Or I may think that putting down this woman verbally would be a great opportunity to point out my (our) perceived superiority. It's the latter that's sadly more often the case when it comes to lack of "verbal editing" in Serbia, where kindness in everyday situations is taken for weakness very quickly and much more often than in the West.


It's a very interesting point, especially regarding the treatment of women in Serbian society.

Serbian culture has two accepted female roles: the self-sacrificing mother or sister, and the "sex toy" (or splav bimbo). Woman's worth is measured through fulfillment of those roles. Serbian male establishes his power and superiority over women he deems undesirable as toys by shaming and belittling them over their appearance, but he will fly off the handle if somebody did the same to his mother or sister. Deep down, Serbian male is unable to see any human value of women outside of those accepted roles. If she is deemed undesirable as toy, Serbian male will feel compelled to inform her and "put her in her place".

Here's an example of incomprehensible hate speech and anger provoked by a fairly innocent video of dancing girls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrOlJnkHbyA
Some of the posters were Serbian males older than 30 who had no better things to do than to respond in this manner.


That's actually a very interesting post linking the treatment of women in Serbian society with rudeness being our second nature. Because if "rudeness" is necessary for survival and successful leadership, consequently, because of the differences in the ways women and men are being raised, it will be more difficult for women to assert themselves as leaders to their direct inferiors, since by assuming the "klingon" language they will inevitably step out of the predesigned role of sweet and loving mother/sister (or sexy toy) and invite instinctual resistence.
It's a vicious circle that is really hard to break out of, even without the extra rudeness on top.
mitar.popovic mitar.popovic 19:01 12.12.2011

Re: Klingons

, it will be more difficult for women to assert themselves as leaders to their direct inferiors,


It will be more difficult, but there are ways. Thus a Serbian mother can control her son through inducing guilt trips more easily than a Canadian mother, and a Serbian girlfriend can control her boyfriend and all other boys by dressing "agressively" and acting like an expensive hooker. The tighter and shorter the skirt, the bigger the implants, the more power to her. This is true everywhere but especially in Serbia and other "macho" countries such as those in Latin America. Of course not all women do it, but it's understandable even for those that do if they have to live in a sexist environment. Needless to say, since this means of yielding power is indirect and depends on softness (or stupidity) of males, the situation is tough (or not so tough?) for ladies.
Anonimni Pojedinac Anonimni Pojedinac 20:52 12.12.2011

Re: Klingons

mitar.popovic
, it will be more difficult for women to assert themselves as leaders to their direct inferiors,


It will be more difficult, but there are ways. Thus a Serbian mother can control her son through inducing guilt trips more easily than a Canadian mother, and a Serbian girlfriend can control her boyfriend and all other boys by dressing "agressively" and acting like an expensive hooker. The tighter and shorter the skirt, the bigger the implants, the more power to her. This is true everywhere but especially in Serbia and other "macho" countries such as those in Latin America. Of course not all women do it, but it's understandable even for those that do if they have to live in a sexist environment. Needless to say, since this means of yielding power is indirect and depends on softness (or stupidity) of males, the situation is tough (or not so tough?) for ladies.


I was talking about professional arena, where implants will hardly help a woman to be more effective as a leader/boss.
But it is funny that you haven't even thought of woman asserting herself that way, only in emotionally manipulative ways.
pinnochio pinnochio 21:00 12.12.2011

Re: Klingons

mitar.popovic
Thus a Serbian mother can control her son through inducing guilt trips more easily than a Canadian mother, and a Serbian girlfriend can control her boyfriend and all other boys by dressing "agressively" and acting like an expensive hooker. The tighter and shorter the skirt, the bigger the implants, the more power to her.


Many foreign visitors to Serbia have noticed the force (and desperation?) with which young Serbian women are aggressively pushing to establish their value on the "meat market". In turn, Serbian male typically sees all woman's behaviors and activities as ultimately revolving around negotiating her market value to him and other males. Therefore, Serbian male considers it his entitlement and right at all times to offer his *completely honest* and *no-bullshit* judgment of woman's market value to him and other males. So if a Serbian male sees a group of dancing girls, he will offer his *honest* judgement about which ones should (according to him) be allowed to engage in this or any other activity, and which ones are the "ugly fat pigs he wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole". The purpose of any activity is apparently seen in terms of establishing the market value of the female.
mitar.popovic mitar.popovic 21:09 12.12.2011

Re: Klingons

But it is funny that you haven't even thought of woman asserting herself that way, only in emotionally manipulative ways.



Hey, wait a minute. I did think of that but just didn't mention it directly. Okay males don't usually work with their guilt-inducing moms, but women can definitely leverage their looks in the workplace and they always do. There was last summer a story in USA of a woman who got fired because she was too hot and this "distracted" her coworkers. Not just in Serbia but anywhere in the world there's so much seduction involved in climbing the corporate ladder, especially in the industries where personality and personal interactions play big roles.

Who do you think leverages her looks more of these two?


Anonimni Pojedinac Anonimni Pojedinac 21:25 12.12.2011

Re: Klingons

mitar.popovic
But it is funny that you haven't even thought of woman asserting herself that way, only in emotionally manipulative ways.



Hey, wait a minute. I did think of that but just didn't mention it directly. Okay males don't usually work with their guilt-inducing moms, but women can definitely leverage their looks in the workplace and they always do. There was last summer a story in USA of a woman who got fired because she was too hot and this "distracted" her coworkers. Not just in Serbia but anywhere in the world there's so much seduction involved in climbing the corporate ladder, especially in the industries where personality and personal interactions play big roles.


Well, the jury is still out on this one. According to some studies, attractive women are discriminated against - often perceived less competent due to good looks, while with attractive men it works the opposite way.
But we digress... I was just talking about how being sweet and mellow (which is how women are raised to be) is a hindrance in the business world of Klingon.
pinnochio pinnochio 21:42 12.12.2011

Re: Klingons

Anonimni Pojedinac
I was just talking about how being sweet and mellow (which is how women are raised to be) is a hindrance in the business world of Klingon.


If a professional woman in Serbia tries to be assertive, she will encounter many roadblocks. Again, her "meat market value" based on her appearance will be invoked to discredit her professional competence. If her meat market value is deemed high, she might be considered pretty and dumb, or her success attributed to being somebody's mistress. If her appearance is deemed undesirable, it might be invoked as a proof that she must be frustrated and "nedojebana", which again makes her unfit for the job. It is usually the appearance and "meat market" value of the woman that are invoked as arguments against her rather than her competence. (Example: Velja Ilic about Olja Beckovic, "da je bolja dao bi joj da mi p..., ali ruzna je mnogo jbga)
golubica.bg golubica.bg 15:15 09.12.2011

You are so right...

When I got back to Serbia from the UK, I subconsciously started using the British politeness discourse in Serbian ("Izvinite molim vas, da li bi ste mogli..., ako nije problem?" and got quite a few raised eyebrows. Even my own family noticed that I became "overpolite"
Chris Farmer Chris Farmer 16:15 09.12.2011

Re: You are so right...

golubica.bg
When I got back to Serbia from the UK, I subconsciously started using the British politeness discourse in Serbian ("Izvinite molim vas, da li bi ste mogli..., ako nije problem?" and got quite a few raised eyebrows. Even my own family noticed that I became "overpolite"

In the UK and in the US, we favor the conditional over the imperative voice. Nowhere is this as typified as in the Midwest (US). There is a phenomenon which is sometimes called "A lot of guys" or "If a guy."

Examples:

"A lot of guys wouldn't want to sit at the table for so long without water."

"If a guy could order a glass of water around here, who would he ask?"
Anonimni Pojedinac Anonimni Pojedinac 17:17 09.12.2011

Re: You are so right...

golubica.bg
When I got back to Serbia from the javascript:;UK, I subconsciously started using the British politeness discourse in Serbian ("Izvinite molim vas, da li bi ste mogli..., ako nije problem?" and got quite a few raised eyebrows. Even my own family noticed that I became "overpolite"


It's true - sadly we have been so abused in history through the centuries, that being brash is a normal mode of operation, even necessary for survival, and the mere act of being polite immediately arouses suspicion.
Nice people must be hiding something
golubica.bg golubica.bg 17:35 09.12.2011

Re: You are so right...

Chris Farmer

In the UK and in the US, we favor the conditional over the imperative voice. Nowhere is this as typified as in the Midwest (US). There is a phenomenon which is sometimes called "A lot of guys" or "If a guy." Examples:"A lot of guys wouldn't want to sit at the table for so long without water.""If a guy could order a glass of water around here, who would he ask?"


Anglo-Saxon culture in general favours the strategies that Brown and Levinson call negative politeness and going off-record. And coincidentally enough, these are the strategies you illustrated in your sentences. Cultural differences can sometimes be so large, that the purpose of the speech act can go completely unnoticed (e.g. "It is hot in here" not being recognised as a request to open the window).

But if there is one thing where English and Serbian are completely different when it comes to politenes, that is the use of the imperative. In Serbian, the imperative is perfectly acceptable with minimal hedging, especially if you know the hearer well ("Aj' mi daj casu vode". If you try to translate this into English literally, there is no way you can avoid sounding downright rude.
mlekac mlekac 15:38 09.12.2011

Once upon a time

In Botswana, people used to ask me "Why do you, people, always fight?"

It took me bit of time to understand that for peaceful Motswana our way of talking, with loud voices, lots of hand gesturing and touching, looks like fight!
Chris Farmer Chris Farmer 16:17 09.12.2011

Re: Once upon a time

mlekac
In Botswana, people used to ask me "Why do you, people, always fight?"

It took me bit of time to understand that for peaceful Motswana our way of talking, with loud voices, lots of hand gesturing and touching, looks like fight!

That used to happen to me all the time here when I first arrived. I did not always understand what was being said, but the voices made it sound like a brawl would soon ensue.

mlekac mlekac 16:37 09.12.2011

Re: Once upon a time

Chris Farmer
mlekac
In Botswana, people used to ask me "Why do you, people, always fight?"

It took me bit of time to understand that for peaceful Motswana our way of talking, with loud voices, lots of hand gesturing and touching, looks like fight!

That used to happen to me all the time here when I first arrived. I did not always understand what was being said, but the voices made it sound like a brawl would soon ensue.




I know the feeling - to tell you the truth, I've used to feel like that first time when I went to southern Italy.

It might be something of the influence of the sun?

Domazet Domazet 19:49 09.12.2011

Strangely enough (again)...

Chris Farmer
mlekac
In Botswana, people used to ask me "Why do you, people, always fight?"

It took me bit of time to understand that for peaceful Motswana our way of talking, with loud voices, lots of hand gesturing and touching, looks like fight!

That used to happen to me all the time here when I first arrived. I did not always understand what was being said, but the voices made it sound like a brawl would soon ensue.


...something similar used to happen to me too. At the time when I first arrived here I used to think that all the people were all the time nice and friendly to me. Because their faces made it look like they are really smiling...
ramanyami ramanyami 18:11 09.12.2011

Free your mind before learning klingonian

Some other places (80km north of klingonian capital for example), or some other times - that would be a completely different story.

Seems to me that somebody here has to learn a lot before coming with general conclusions about klingonian culture and language in general...
mitar.popovic mitar.popovic 01:30 10.12.2011

Re: Free your mind before learning klingonian


Why don't you enlighten us master ramanyami?

Milutin Milošević Milutin Milošević 18:20 09.12.2011

I would say...

... it is more about being direct. See, during a family lunch, for instance, Serb would never say "would you please pass me the salt". One word is enough "so" - and the closes one will pass it to you. Why talking so much?
Domazet Domazet 19:42 09.12.2011

If I read your

"Excuse me, but if you would not mind, if you happen to be passing by the kitchen and if it is not any trouble, I would appreciate a glass of water, please. When you get around to it, next time you are near the table. Thank you.
"
correctly, you like that much better than
"DECKO!"..."Water!"
.
Which in turn, again if I read you correctly, means that you prefer passive aggressive over aggressive aggressive? Strangely enough, lately I do too. Which, in turn, brings us to a question how come you are less flexible then I am??

Jukie Jukie 20:03 09.12.2011

Zanimljivo

Nekako sam uvek zamišljao da su po uzoru na Srbe načinjeni Kardasijanci
mitar.popovic mitar.popovic 23:40 09.12.2011

Re: Zanimljivo



Ko sto napisah gore nisam nikad gledao seriju ali me ta poredjenja vanzemaljskih rasa sa stvarnim nacijama interesuje, jer je Star Trek jako popularan jos uvek u Americi tako da je ta serija uticala na mnoge. Pretrazih malo po internetu i evo sta sam nasao na vise mesta:

Krasijanci - bivsi Sovjetski Savez (pa u pravu si)
Klingons - Japanska imperija
Ferengi - klasicni negativni stereotip Jevreja, bar po misljenju mnogih uvredjenih
BigBadWolf BigBadWolf 00:33 10.12.2011

Origin of Klingons

It is a well known fact that Klingons are, in fact Serbs. In ancient age, hidden in the mist of times, Serbs decided to purge all cowards and pussies from their ranks. so they banished them to Klingon. In order to prove themselves worthy of returning to their mother land, Klingons constantly pick fights with whomever they come in contact, hoping one day they will be forgiven and allowed to leave the exile. It is a dream of every young Klingon boy to kneel and kiss the sacred ground of Shumadija (and Kosovo and Metohija).

Kosovo is heart of Klingon!
Aleksandra Mitrovic Aleksandra Mitrovic 21:58 10.12.2011

if you swear-make sure it's on Serbian ;-)

Ok, here’s the thing….in my everyday job (diving instructor in Egypt) I have opportunity to meet a lot of people with different nationalities, cultures, backgrounds,…etc. I could tell you a lot of really funny stories from my experience. Just one of them……well…there’s group of Slovenian divers coming here every year. Usually 25-45 of them and leader is always the same. They are always diving with same diving center here. It’s is MANDATORY for me each time to be with them. It’s not because they are not speaking foreign languages or they are demanding especially me on board…nothing like that. As the meter of fact manager of that diving center is requiring that. He came to conclusion that only somebody like me is able to put them in order. All diving briefings are basically same…or let’s say safety procedures are the same. Now….manager would say briefing on English, French and German and all of them will understand what he sad BUT then I would say all of that on Serbian (most of Slovenians understand Serbian)….and ONLY then they would understand what is the point. The difference which I would make…. example: instead “….on this point it’s not good idea to swim too far from the reef because you could be find yourself in the strong current and it would be difficult for you to swim back”, I would say “….make sure that you are not more than 2m away from the reef because current IS GOING TO TAKE you to the point of no return”. Or instead: “…please control your depth and make sure that you are not exceeding safety limits”, I would say: “…if you are deeper than dive guide – you are on the wrong place, if you are in front of dive guide – you are on the wrong place.”
One more thing. I’m speaking English everyday for more than 7 years now, I’m thinking on English, I’m dreaming on English but if I’m swearing I’m swearing on Serbian
mlekac mlekac 09:54 11.12.2011

Re: if you swear-make sure it's on Serbian ;-)

Aleksandra Mitrovic
Ok, here’s the thing….in my everyday job (diving instructor in Egypt) I have opportunity to meet a lot of people with different nationalities, cultures, backgrounds,…etc. I could tell you a lot of really funny stories from my experience. Just one of them……well…there’s group of Slovenian divers coming here every year. Usually 25-45 of them and leader is always the same. They are always diving with same diving center here. It’s is MANDATORY for me each time to be with them. It’s not because they are not speaking foreign languages or they are demanding especially me on board…nothing like that. As the meter of fact manager of that diving center is requiring that. He came to conclusion that only somebody like me is able to put them in order. All diving briefings are basically same…or let’s say safety procedures are the same. Now….manager would say briefing on English, French and German and all of them will understand what he sad BUT then I would say all of that on Serbian (most of Slovenians understand Serbian)….and ONLY then they would understand what is the point. The difference which I would make…. example: instead “….on this point it’s not good idea to swim too far from the reef because you could be find yourself in the strong current and it would be difficult for you to swim back”, I would say “….make sure that you are not more than 2m away from the reef because current IS GOING TO TAKE you to the point of no return”. Or instead: “…please control your depth and make sure that you are not exceeding safety limits”, I would say: “…if you are deeper than dive guide – you are on the wrong place, if you are in front of dive guide – you are on the wrong place.”
One more thing. I’m speaking English everyday for more than 7 years now, I’m thinking on English, I’m dreaming on English but if I’m swearing I’m swearing on Serbian



This reminds me of everyday situation which I had during my work with local community in Bw.

My boss-your countryman, Chris,- had PhD in Anthropology, and, as a former university lecturer, had a tendency to over-explain things. And to use many long words, especially those with a Latin roots.

So, he would tell locals to do something, and then, like on the clue, all heads would turn to me, and I had to tell them same thing, but on simple English, Klingon style like "Go there, take that, come back..." And everyone would nod happily and went to their tasks.

It was upsetting him to no end, but he just couldn't understand why do I have to simplify his instructions, and why nobody cares that it sounds so rude...
Chris Farmer Chris Farmer 10:08 11.12.2011

Re: if you swear-make sure it's on Serbian ;-)

mlekac
It was upsetting him to no end, but he just couldn't understand why do I have to simplify his instructions, and why nobody cares that it sounds so rude...


Ours is not to reason why. Ours is but to do or die.

Ka'plah!
Krugolina Borup Krugolina Borup 13:58 11.12.2011

Re: if you swear-make sure it's on Serbian ;-)

It was upsetting him to no end, but he just couldn't understand why do I have to simplify his instructions, and why nobody cares that it sounds so rude...


My Danish man can't even get himself to say we are rude (that would be too rude to call someone rude), but instead calls us "no-bullshit people" (which, strangely, even sounds like a compliment to Serbian ears, probably because a rude word is used).
Aleksandra Mitrovic Aleksandra Mitrovic 14:37 11.12.2011

Re: if you swear-make sure it's on Serbian ;-)

Krugolina Borup


My Danish man can't even get himself to say we are rude (that would be too rude to call someone rude), but instead calls us "no-bullshit people" (which, strangely, even sounds like a compliment to Serbian ears, probably because a rude word is used).

I have heard that definition many times...but it was always leaving me wondering is that means that those which are not “rude” are actually bullshit people. I was never so rude to ask them for the answer on that one…so if author would be so kind to answer me …PLEASE (this is me being rude)
Krugolina Borup Krugolina Borup 15:35 11.12.2011

Re: if you swear-make sure it's on Serbian ;-)

I have heard that definition many times...but it was always leaving me wondering is that means that those which are not “rude” are actually bullshit people.


I think it is a cultural thing (as things often are).

Not all of the behavior labeled as "rude" by polite people is really rude. Some of it is actually frankness, which one culture might value more than the other.

Not all of the behavior labeled as "polite" by rude people is really polite. Some of it is insencere, which one culture might frawn upon more than the other.

Boils down to who is doing the labeling of "rude" and "polite", and with which preconceptons of what "rude" and "polite" is.
Aleksandra Mitrovic Aleksandra Mitrovic 16:26 11.12.2011

Re: if you swear-make sure it's on Serbian ;-)

Krugolina Borup


Boils down to who is doing the labeling of "rude" and "polite", and with which preconceptons of what "rude" and "polite" is.

Yeah...that's what I was thinking too. You know my 12 year old neice told me recently: "Everybody are asking me to be honest with them and then when I get honest they found themselves offended"...and what I supouse to tell her on that?
Chris Farmer Chris Farmer 09:09 12.12.2011

Re: if you swear-make sure it's on Serbian ;-)

Aleksandra Mitrovic
…so if author would be so kind to answer me …PLEASE (this is me being rude)


The line dividing rude from "no-bullshit" is thick and thorny and has a big sign on it saying PLEASE DO NOT CROSS. I might ask you if you like this blog, and your answers could be:

RUDE - "You suck."
No-Bullshit - "It sucks."

The rude is designed to offend, the other is just what it says.

Yours VERY sincerely,
The Author
jednatanja jednatanja 16:15 12.12.2011

Re: if you swear-make sure it's on Serbian ;-)

RUDE - "You suck."


Rude and illogical, classical ad hominem, although not always incorrect, according to the literature.


Arhiva

   

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