NATO - dinosaurus (koji sjedi), a ne zmaj

Dejan Jović RSS / 29.09.2007. u 16:46

Prošlog sam tjedna u „Politici“ pronašao (što nije bilo teško – teže bi ga bilo ne pronaći) plaćeni oglas Demokratske stranke Srbije – s tekstom njenog predsjednika, Vojislava Koštunice, kojim se objavljuje promjena stava te stranke u odnosu na eventualno članstvo Srbije u NATO-u. DSS se sada, koliko razumijem, protivi punopravnom članstvu, ali je i dalje za suradnju u okviru Partnerstva za mir. U Hrvatskoj – koja očekuje da sljedeće godine uđe u Organizaciju – nema puno rasprave o koristima i nedostacima tog članstva, a nema ni entuzijazma za ulaskom. 

Ulazak u NATO danas mi izgleda kao ulazak u organizaciju koja je praktički paralizirana, i za koju mi se čini da se neće tako brzo oporaviti, niti će ubrzo krenuti u neki novi rat. Prva i zadnja njegova vojna akcija bio je rat protiv SR Jugoslavije oko Kosova, 1999. Taj je rat pokazao da NATO gotovo ni oko čega ne može postići politički konsenzus, te da ga politička složenost vrlo ozbiljno koči. Sjetimo se: rat protiv Jugoslavije zamišljen je kao kratka, brza i efikasna akcija – a trajao je 78 dana. To se dogodilo ne samo radi otpora kojeg je pružala tadašnja Jugoslavija (i to šire od njenog političkog vrha), nego i zato što se zemlje-članice nikako nisu mogle složiti o metama koje treba (i koje ne treba) bombardirati, kao ni o detaljima „plana B“ (zemna intervencija, promjena režima, itd.). Kao što iskreno opisuju vojni i politički vođe te akcije u odličnom dokumentarcu u tri dijela „Pad Miloševića“, već nakon trećeg dana, kad se vidjelo da stvari ne idu kako su zamišljene, došlo je do zbrke, a dijelom i panike. S produženjem bombardiranja, NATO je postajao sve nervozniji, a i produžena akcija je značajno iritirala javno mnijenje u važnim zemljama-članicama: naročito u Njemačkoj, Grčkoj i Italiji. U Njemačkoj je Joshka Fischer dobio tortu u facu na kongresu svoje partije, u Grčkoj je došlo do aktivnog opstruiranja prevoženja materijala na putu za Makedoniju, u Italiji do demonstracija pred NATO bazama... Javno mnijenje je u mnogim zapadnim zemljama bilo protiv tog rata, što se moglo zanemariti u nekoj trodnevnoj akciji, ali ne i kad se vidjelo da ona traje mjesecima. Jednom riječju, nije samo Srbiji trebao kraj bombardiranja, nego i političkom i vojnom vrhu te Organizacije. 

Rat protiv (tadašnje) Jugoslavije (a zapravo: protiv Srbije) pokazao je da NATO baš i nije najbolja organizacijska forma za vojne intervencije, upravo zato što se radi o organizaciji s toliko zemalja-članica. Uostalom, NATO nije mogao završiti taj rat bez pomoći posrednika iz zemalja koje nisu članice te Organizacije: Martija Ahtisaarija (iz Finske) i Viktora Černomirdina (iz Rusije). Činjenica da je Organizacija morala angažirati dvojicu „neutralaca“, pokazala je (relativnu) slabost njene pozicije. Ne čudi stoga da u tom ratu NATO nije ostvario sve svoje političke ciljeve – a možda čak ni glavne. Primjerice, iako je prije akcije potpuno ignorirao Ujedinjene Nacije (u tom smislu je Bill Clinton samo prethodnica onog što će kasnije – u slučaju Iraka – ponoviti George Bush), na kraju rata je NATO pristao da se o političkom rješenju (bar formalno) odluči u Ujedinjenim Narodima. Tako je došlo do rezolucije 1244 Vijeća sigurnosti. Ta je rezolucija prije svega izraz kompromisa, a ne pobjede jedne strane (NATO-a) nad drugom (Jugoslavijom, odnosno Srbijom). Njome je priznata (bar formalno) de iure suverenost Jugoslavije na Kosovu, iako je ta teritorija postala de facto u svakom smislu odvojena od Srbije. Pa ipak, nije postala i de iure nezavisna. Napokon, NATO je morao pristati i na to da trupe koje kontoliraju Kosovo neće biti ekskluzivno njegove, nego će biti mjesta i za Ruse. Slabost NATO-a na kraju tog (za njega neočekivano dugog, i zapravo – po mnogo čemu - sramotnog) 78-dnevnog bombardiranja, simbolički se mogla vidjeti prilikom provokativnog ulaska ruskih trupa na Kosovo.  

NATO tada, naravno, nije razbijen ni poražen (daleko od toga!) – ali su političke vođe zemalja članica postale skeptičnije i opreznije pri davanju suglasnosti za njegovu upotrebu. Možda je i zbog toga (naravno, ne samo zbog toga) bilo nemoguće postići konsenzus o upotrebi Organizacije prilikom rata protiv Iraka, 2003. U Iraku, kao što je evidentno (ali se često zaboravlja), NATO ne ratuje – nego ratuje „koalicija dragovoljnih“ (coalition of the willing). Važne članice Organizacije – primjerice, Njemačka pod Schroederom i Francuska pod Chiracom – odbile su sudjelovati u vojnim akcijama, pa je NATO praktički paraliziran iznutra. To je izraz i ideoloških neslaganja s neokonzervativizmom i neuvjerljivosti dokaza koji su Amerikanci prikazali prije započinjanja tog rata, pa i različitih pozicija kad se radi o bilateralnim odnosima sa nekadašnjim Sadamovim Irakom. No, jedan od razloga je i u iskustvo NATO-ovog rata oko Kosova, koji je i tekao a i završio nešto drukčije nego što su stratezi te akcije najavljivali.  

Sve to valja imati u vidu kad se kod nas govori o članstvu u NATO-u. Ta je organizacija danas jedna vrsta simboličkog zmaja – ali u stvarnosti se radi više o nekom nepokretnom dinosaurusu s kojim ni Amerikanci, ni Britanci zapravo ne znaju što bi dalje. Ne mogu ga ukinuti, niti do kraja zanemariti – ali ga ne mogu ni pokrenuti. U odnosu prema istočnoevropskim zemljama (a sada i zemljama Jugoistočne Evrope: Albaniji, Hrvatskoj i Makedoniji, odnosno sutra – Srbiji, Crnoj Gori i možda Bosni i Hercegovini), on ima prije svega „vaspitnu ulogu“ – da ih se natjera na određeni oblik unutrašnjih reformi vojske, policije i države kao takve. Uostalom, meni se čini i da je ovaj oglas kog sam spomenuo na početku teksta, također usmjeren više prema unutrašnjoj politici (protivljenju američkom utjecaju na Vojsku Srbije) nego što je izraz stvarne bojazni da bi Srbija – ulaskom u NATO – ušla u neki od sadašnjih ili budućih ratova.  



Komentari (113)

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Dragan Vujanović Dragan Vujanović 17:17 29.09.2007

Da se, ne daj bože, ne pomisli..!!


U ovoj stvari se čini da je sve već toliko poznato. Opet, kad se sagledaju mogući zapleti i raspleti, deluje da znamo samo površne i samim tim gotovo nebitne činjenice, odnosno da više ne znamo ništa.

A gore pomenuta politička opcija... Hoće u Partnerstvo za mir, a neće u NATO? Devojka bi da bude malo, ali vrlo malo trudna, da se ne pomisli da je ..!
blackbox blackbox 19:41 29.09.2007

Re: Da se, ne daj bože, ne pomisli..!!

Hoće u Partnerstvo za mir, a neće u NATO? Devojka bi da bude malo, ali vrlo malo trudna, da se ne pomisli da je ..!

To je kod nas odavno, oni rade one stvari a narod mora da abortira.
mariopan mariopan 17:18 29.09.2007

BRAVO

Danas se cesce mogu naci tekstovi koji promovisu ulazak u NATO nego ovako sveobuhvatna analiza njihovog delovanja ,ciljeva i postignutih rezultata. U celosti se mogu sloziti sa Vasim zapazanjima pa i onom da je izjava Kostunice zapravo za unutrsnju upotrebu. Ne zaboravite ,ovde se najavljuju izbori i mnoge ce izjave sluziti samo za podilazenje birackom telu a nokako za ozbiljnu nameru da se pritupi ili ne pristupi toj organizaciji.

U Srbiji postoji veliki otpor prema NATOu ,pre svega zbog bombardovanja koje je ,onako podrugljivo nazvano "Milosrdni andjeo" a ubijali su decu ,gadjali privredne objekte ,i sve sa pricom da hoce da sruse Slo. Mil. gadjali mostove u N Sadu,voz u Grdelickoj klisuri,zgradu RTS,gde Sloba nije bio... pa zato sada tesko da ce se takva ideja ovde dopasti narodu.

Ostali vide to sto i Vi vidite ,da je ta organizacija pregazena vremenom ,da su se izgubili razlozi za njeno postojanje ,da se svet sasvim drugacije ,ne uvek vojno,moze savladati. Novcem koji se nekom daje ili ne daje ,sankcijama koje ce dovesti do siromastva itd. To su sredstva koja se obilato koriste pre nego oruzana sila. Tako je sama ta organizacija dospela do izdisaja i ne treba je obnavlajti,to je moje misljenje,danas se ratovi vode novcem ne oruzjem. Oruzje samo u slucaju teskog razbojnistva koje ,na primer danas ,Amerika sprovodi nad Irakom.
igipop igipop 17:20 29.09.2007

Sjajan tekst

preporuka

PS: Ovo je tekst za ozbiljne novine



Dejan Jović Dejan Jović 19:14 29.09.2007

Re: Sjajan tekst

igipop
preporukaPS: Ovo je tekst za ozbiljne novine



Eh, da ih ima ...
Virtuelni Vasilije Virtuelni Vasilije 20:41 29.09.2007

Re: Sjajan tekst

igipop
preporukaPS: Ovo je tekst za ozbiljne novine


Da bas sjajan. Ja malopre napisah jednom blogeru "da tek treba da napise teskt koji ima veze sa politikom i koji se meni svidja" - za gospodina Jovica vazi obrnuto ...

Naravno svako od nas moze da doda jos dosta na ovu temu - kao sto bi, siguran sam, i g. Jovic mogao da napise jos mnogo. Pa je i to za pohvalu: reci mnogo u (relativno) malo teksta ...


Dejan Jovic
Eh, da ih ima ...


Ma ima ih g. Jovicu. Ja bih rekao da ovaj blog cita dosta ljudi koji se bave novinarstvom i stampom u Srbiji. I nesto verujem da bi ovo moglo da bude zapazeno. Ako preporuke jednog obicnog nebitnog blogera nesto vrede ... imate i moju

Blog je u svakom slucaju dobio dosta vasim dolaskom ...
Dejan Jović Dejan Jović 20:56 29.09.2007

Re: Sjajan tekst

Virtuelni Vasilije

Ma ima ih g. Jovicu. Ja bih rekao da ovaj blog cita dosta ljudi koji se bave novinarstvom i stampom u Srbiji. I nesto verujem da bi ovo moglo da bude zapazeno. Ako preporuke jednog obicnog nebitnog blogera nesto vrede ... imate i mojuBlog je u svakom slucaju dobio dosta vasim dolaskom ...



Znam da ih ima - izvinjavam se ako sam uvrijedio nekog ovim poluciničnim komentarom. U stvari, u Beogradu ima daleko boljih i ozbiljnijih novina nego u Zagrebu. Drago mi je da su mnoge ozbiljne novine u Beogradu ipak opstale, iskreno se nadam da će ostati tako. Zagreb bi se trebao zamisliti kako to da je jednom imao "Start", "Danas", i dobru omladinsku i studentsku štampu - a šta ima danas ? (Feral je iz Splita
bauer bauer 04:48 30.09.2007

Re: Sjajan tekst

kako to da je jednom imao "Start", "Danas", i dobru omladinsku i studentsku štampu

Dejane, pozdrav i dobrodoslica (zakasnela) :)
Hteo sam samo da pitam, kako se ugasi Start? To je za mene bila 'obavezna literatura', nekada, a i u Danasu se moglo sto-sta dobrog procitati. Ja vec podugo nisam na tim prostorima. A u vreme godina raspleta Starta nije bilo u Srbiji, tako da neznam ni kada se on ugasio?
Dejan Jović Dejan Jović 09:12 30.09.2007

Re: Sjajan tekst

bauer
kako to da je jednom imao "Start", "Danas", i dobru omladinsku i studentsku štampu Dejane, pozdrav i dobrodoslica (zakasnela) :)Hteo sam samo da pitam, kako se ugasi Start? ?



Hvala na dobrodošlici Ne sjećam se detalja - jednostavno se ugasio. Mislim da je u najvećoj mjeri to zbog toga što je START stvarno imao jugoslavensko tržište, i kad je to tržište postalo ili nedostupno (fizički) ili neprijateljsko prema novinama s kojima se ne slaže, tiraža je pala, i stvar se ugasila. Povrh toga, došlo je do smanjenja interesa javnosti za racionalne rasprave , i do konzervativizacije društva. Gdje bi u jednoj Hrvatskoj, u kojoj kardinal Kuharić ima ulogu jednako važnu kao Franjo Tuđman, mogla biti dobrodošla novina sa takvim duplericama! I još ako pritom piše o cijeloj Jugoslaviji, i promovira zapadnu glazbu, a ne domoljubne i narodoljubne koračnice! Danas je prošao slično, iako se on ipak malo više bio kačio na voz obrane "jadne Hrvatske", pa su neki njegovi (inače pogođeni) komentari o Srbiji pod Miloševićem bili inspirirani tom logikom. Bilo je pokušaja obnove i STARTA i Danasa - u slučaju Starta nastao je "Start nove generacije", uređivao ga je Zvone Krstulović (nekadašnji glavni urednik Poleta), ali nije uspio. Danas je postao "Novi Danas", i trajao je mislim do 1993. Redakcija se podijelila - kao što je uvijek i bila podijeljena - jedan dio (Marinko Čulić, Zoran Daskalović, i dr.) su stvorili Feral Tribune, bez kojeg "druga Hrvatska" teško da bi se primjećivala. Drugi su otišli u razna izdanja EPH - npr. Globus (Jelena Lovrić, Tanja Torbarina) - i postali dio te mašinerije. Torbarina i dalje piše istu kolumnu koju je pisala od 1984 ili 1985, za nju se ništa pod milim Bogom nije dogodilo u ovih dvadeset i više godina...
tnosugar tnosugar 12:27 30.09.2007

Re: Sjajan tekst

a sto ne bi bio za ozbiljan blog. Ozbiljen novine su postale oksimoron na nasem medijskom prostoru.

uz to:

također usmjeren više prema unutrašnjoj politici (protivljenju američkom utjecaju na Vojsku Srbije) nego što je izraz stvarne bojazni da bi Srbija – ulaskom u NATO – ušla u neki od sadašnjih ili budućih ratova.


exactly my point iz prethodnog bloga g. Jovica. Ovde se pre svega radi o reformi vojnog i bezbednosnog sistema, preciznije razmontiravanju vojne vrhuske, koja je na eksternom planu sada prakticno bezopasna, u odnosu na pre 10 i 15 godina. NATO-u je sve jedno da li cemo mi uci ili ne. Da bi opstao, trebaju mu novi ratovi, a ne novi clanovi (SAD cak bi volele i da ih je manje, pogotovo onih neposlusnih).

Odlican tekst, btw. Drago mi je da se pojavio komentator sa sirom slikom o makropolitickim kretanjima na jedinoj jos uvek valjanoj medijskoj platformi B92. Uglavnom svi gutaju, prezivaju, prevode i serviraju doktrinu i floskule koju servira mainstream propaganda nekoliko medijiskih mreza koje specificno tome i sluze.
dunjica dunjica 17:18 30.09.2007

Re: Sjajan tekst

Da, hrvatsko kritičko novinarstvo je sramno minorna pojava. Pitam se, zašto?

Ah, Tanja Torbarina, lijepo ste to rekli.

Doduše, ja ovdje u daljini, rado sam čitala "Hrvatsku ljevicu" za Šuvarova života. Nije da se slažem s nostalgičarskom političkom opcijom koju su zastupali, niti sam - kao žrtva Šuvarove reforme školstva - njegov fan (osobno sam cijenila njegovu osobnu skromnost), ali mi veoma fale glasovi "druge Hrvatske", pa sam grabila za onim što je bilo dostupno.
bauer bauer 07:41 01.10.2007

Re: Sjajan tekst

Gdje bi u jednoj Hrvatskoj, u kojoj kardinal Kuharić ima ulogu jednako važnu kao Franjo Tuđman, mogla biti dobrodošla novina sa takvim duplericama!

Duplerica je bila samo jedna oku ugodna zanimacija. U Startu se imalo mnogo toga dobrog za procitat. U Srbiji se otislo u drugu karajnost, tesku pornografiju, pa, kad deca na trafici hoce da kupe zvake, sa svih strana ih okruze prizori hard-core sex-a. Stete, verujem da, moglo je bolje...

Secam se kada se pricalo da je dokaz da bog ne postoji to, sto, kada bi postojao, Zoran Petrovic Pirocanac bi ga vec intervjuisao :)) A gde je danas ZPP? I Lazzanjski?
Хаџија Хаџија 17:26 29.09.2007

Da li su uzroci, profesore, ovde dolje?

"In January 1998, in an interview with the French journal /Le Nouvel Observateur/, former U.S. National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, an advocate of a “Clash of Civilizations’’ between the West and Islam, confirmed that, indeed, secret CIA support to the mujahideen started six months before the date given officially. The secret support was intended as a provocation to the Russians, to lure them into the “Afghan trap.’’

Brzezinski stated: “According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the mujahideen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, on Dec. 24, 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely the opposite: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979, that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the President in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.’’ When asked if he regretted that provocation today, Brzezinski replied, “Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap—the day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: `We now have the opportunity of giving to the U.S.S.R. its Vietnam War.’ Indeed, for almost ten years, Moscow had to carry on a war that was unsustainable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire. What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some whipped-up Muslims or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the Cold War?’’

So, it is not hard to see why the “Islamists” would have an open channel with Western agencies including the CIA."
Dejan Jović Dejan Jović 19:17 29.09.2007

Re: Da li su uzroci, profesore, ovde dolje?

Хаџија
"."



Jimmy Carter je bio vrlo važan američki predsjednik, možda čak i najvažniji kad se radi o istočnoj Evropi. On zaslužuje jedan posebni tekst, ili barem ozbiljan nekrolog (kad se desi, je li...).
antioksidant antioksidant 17:30 29.09.2007

gordi nato

kraj sukoba srbije i nato, tj to nesretno kompromisno resenje (de facto jedna situacija na kosovu, de iure sasvim druga) je primer koji nas poseca da je neke cvorove bolje tretirati na isti nacin kao sto je filipov sin (sto bi rekao cer) zavrsio sa gordijevim.

kancer je ostao da truli i truje. za ostalo hvala...

meni nato lici na vitamin c koji pijem iako mi u stvari treba antibiotik. znam da nece upala proci od njega, ali nekako je deo paketa...
antioksidant antioksidant 17:31 29.09.2007

Re: gordi nato

za ostalo hvala...


jer je uzivanje citati
Dejan Jović Dejan Jović 19:18 29.09.2007

Re: gordi nato

antioksidant
za ostalo hvala...jer je uzivanje citati



Hvala.
tuzlanac tuzlanac 06:09 30.09.2007

Re: gordi nato

antioksidant
kraj sukoba srbije i nato, tj to nesretno kompromisno resenje (de facto jedna situacija na kosovu, de iure sasvim druga) je primer koji nas poseca da je neke cvorove bolje tretirati na isti nacin kao sto je filipov sin (sto bi rekao cer) zavrsio sa gordijevim.

kancer je ostao da truli i truje. za ostalo hvala...

meni nato lici na vitamin c koji pijem iako mi u stvari treba antibiotik. znam da nece upala proci od njega, ali nekako je deo paketa...


vjerujem da nije kompromisno rjesenje, nego takticno ostavljanje otvorenog problema na balkanu. pogledajte samo tu sumsku republiku; drzavu u drzavi?
ivana23 ivana23 17:30 29.09.2007

Da je bar bila torta


Burna vanredna sednica skupštine nemačke stranke Zelenih
Crvenom farbom na Fišera

''Vidno uzbuđen, s tragovima još sveže crvene farbe na odelu kojom je bio zasut pre početka debate, zbog čega mu je posle govora ukazana lekarska pomoć, Fišer je dobacio svojim protivnicima:
- Budete li usvojili radikalan zahtev za obustavu vazdušnih napada, ja takav zaključak neću sprovesti u delo.''
13.5.1999.g.
Dejan Jović Dejan Jović 19:19 29.09.2007

Re: Da je bar bila torta

ivana23
''Vidno uzbuđen, s tragovima još sveže crvene farbe na odelu ...



Uh, stvarno farba Sorry, mislio sam da je ipak bolje prošao. Neću izmijeniti originalni tekst, da ne bi ovaj Vaš komentar bio besmislen - prihvaćam da je tu napravljena pogreška. Hvala!
ivana23 ivana23 19:24 29.09.2007

Re: Da je bar bila torta

Dejan Jović

ivana23''Vidno uzbuđen, s tragovima još sveže crvene farbe na odelu ...Uh, stvarno farba Sorry, mislio sam da je ipak bolje prošao. Neću izmijeniti originalni tekst, da ne bi ovaj Vaš komentar bio besmislen - prihvaćam da je tu napravljena pogreška. Hvala!

Nema problema (za nas), on ih je bogme imao, naime farba mu je duboko prodrla u uho i zbog toga mu je bila potrebna lekarska pomoc.
Dejan Jović Dejan Jović 20:59 29.09.2007

Re: Da je bar bila torta

ivana23

Nema problema (za nas), on ih je bogme imao, naime farba mu je duboko prodrla u uho i zbog toga mu je bila potrebna lekarska pomoc.



Da, da. Da je bila torta, ne bi mu trebao liječnik, nego jedna dobra krava s dugim jezikom
ivana23 ivana23 21:08 29.09.2007

Re: Da je bar bila torta

Dejan Jović

ivana23Nema problema (za nas), on ih je bogme imao, naime farba mu je duboko prodrla u uho i zbog toga mu je bila potrebna lekarska pomoc.Da, da. Da je bila torta, ne bi mu trebao liječnik, nego jedna dobra krava s dugim jezikom

LiRa LiRa 00:03 30.09.2007

Re: Da je bar bila torta


I ovo bi bila jedna sjajna tema - sramna uloga (ne samo) njemackih Zelenih u ovom ratu, izuzimajuci Idu schillen, Judith Demba i, naravno, Ströbele-a.

Sad trolujem, ali moram . Sjetila sam se jedne emisije na n-tv u kojoj je gostovao Djindjic. Upitan kako se razumije sa Josephom Fischerom, jer je na obojicu utjecala Frankfurtska skola, a i studirali su nekako u isto vrijeme i blabla... odgovara Djindjic - Pa, znate, postoji dosta razlika izmedju nas, a prije svega ta da on voli NATO, a ja ne.
Хаџија Хаџија 17:40 29.09.2007

More questions than answers, professor?

So, it is not hard to see why the “Islamists” would have an open channel with Western agencies including the CIA. The man who reportedly presented to al-Zawahiri the $50 million proposal and the encouragement to destabilize Egypt, is known as Abu Mohamed al-Amriki, “Mohamed the American,” real name Ali Mohammad. An Egyptian military man, al-Amriki joined the Jihad organization in 1981, the year that the Jihad claimed credit for the Oct. 6, 1981 assassination of President Anwar Sadat. Among the persons arrested for that assassination was Ayman al-Zawahiri, charged with illegal weapons possession. The stories of al-Amriki and al-Zawahiri tend to intersect not only in Afghanistan and Egypt, but also in the United States. It was al-Amriki who organized the visit of al-Zawahiri to New York, California, and Texas, to collect money, officially, for the families of the Afghan war victims. In reality, part of the money, according to the courtroom testimony of Khalid Abu-al-Dhahab in Cairo 1999, was used to finance the bombing of the Egyptian Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan. Al-Amriki reportedly began his career as the elusive “American” in 1981, when he first arrived in the United States immediately after having joined the Jihad organization, and was enlisted in a U.S. Special Forces school for foreign officers at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

In 1985, after leaving the Egyptian Army, he came to California and married. In 1986, he joined the U.S. Army. As a sergeant, he was stationed again at Fort Bragg’s Special Warfare center, and in the late 1980s he popped up at an Afghan refugee center in Brooklyn, New York. There he gave combat training to Afghan and Muslim recruits who were to be sent back to Afghanistan to fight the Russians. Al-Amriki in 1992 went to Pakistan and Afghanistan to train the bin Laden men, providing especially “military and basic explosives training,’’ according to U.S. court records. Al-Amriki terrorist career took off from there, putting him in contact and in a position of leadership with virtually every major Islamist terrorist organization. Al Amriki/Mohammad was indicted and convicted for his involvement in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. One of the prosecutors in that case was Special Prosecutor in the RoveGate case, Patrick Fitzgerald. Nevertheless, Al Amriki/Mohammad was a prized contact for Pentagon special operations personnel. One of his closest colleagues, a former member of Delta Force, is now involved with Task Force 121 and the Pentagon’s Strategic Support Branch (Project Icon) and passing intelligence to the neo-conservative parallel intelligence unit operating inside the Pentagon. Task Force 121 is the group responsible for the kidnaping of Imam Omar from Milan and other irresponsible and dangerous adventurism around the world.



Da li NATO kompromitovan i bez šanse za oporavak?
Dejan Jović Dejan Jović 19:26 29.09.2007

Re: More questions than answers, professor?

Хаџија
Da li NATO kompromitovan i bez šanse za oporavak?



To je zanimljivo pitanje, Hadžija. Anthony Giddens misli, primjerice, da je NATO postao problematičan utoliko što ne predstavlja nikakvu demokratski izabranu vlast/vladu, nego je u biti institucija Hladnog rata, koja je nadživjela vrijeme u kojem je i zbog kojeg je napravljena. On smatra - usudit ću se prepričati ga - da NATO ima smisla samo kao eventualna "globalna vojska", tj. vojska Ujedinjenih naroda, pri čemu bi UN trebali biti demokratski legitimirani svjetskim izborima. (Ovo prepričavam intervju kojeg sam imao s njim dok je trajalo bombardiranje Srbije, objavljen je u Feralu odmah nakon toga). Eh, sad, meni se čini da je to je sasvim nemoguće - zgodna utopija, ali nemoguće. Prvo, moćne sile ne žele demokratsku transformaciju Ujedinjenih naroda, nego im odgovara anarhičan međunarodni poredak. Drugo, NATO teško da može napraviti tu transformaciju, jer je identificiran s jednom od strana u bivšem Hladnom ratu... Giddensove ideje su dijelom utjecale na Blaira (i njegovu vanjsku politiku liberalnog intervencionizma), a također i na Romana Prodija. Ali, Blair je prošlost (i to - prilično neuspješna), a Prodi je lider jedne relativno nevažne zemlje, a ne više predsjednik Europske Unije...
urbanosaurus urbanosaurus 19:33 29.09.2007

Re: More questions than answers, professor

nego im odgovara anarhičan međunarodni poredak.


morao da reagujem...
izvinjavam se, ali anarhichan nije pravi termin za ono shto ste hteli reci...

anomichan je verovatno ono shto ste mislili...




Хаџија Хаџија 19:52 29.09.2007

Re: More questions than answers, professor?

Kakvo osveženje! Ovo je prava prolećna kiša!
Dobiti odgovor na BLOGU92 umesto paradajza, sira i trulih dunja! Pa to nije moguće! Slava tebi Bože! Ima nade!
Oprostite mi profesore, što koristim Vašu platformu da prospem ove ČINJENICE
u beogradski vetar.


Ali da budem đavolov savetnik pa da vas pitam profesore:

Kakve će biti posledice po PROJEKAT nazvan Globalisation? Šta je "globalisation" inače?
Dejan Jović Dejan Jović 20:03 29.09.2007

Re: More questions than answers, professor

urbanosaurus
izvinjavam se, ali anarhichan nije pravi termin za ono shto ste hteli reci...anomichan je verovatno ono shto ste mislili...



Ne, mislio sam baš anarhičan, iako možda baš nije u redu da se pojam anarhije vezuje s pojmom 'poredak'. Ali, to se ustalilo u teoriji medjunarodnih odnosa. Misli se na činjenicu da - budući da nema globalne države, ni globalnog ustava, ni globalnih zakona - države u međunarodnoj komunikaciji djeluju anarhično, tj. kako koja može i želi. Međunarodna je politika - u nedostatku jasnih pravila - anarhična. Svjetski je poredak u tom smislu "anarhičan". Znam da to zvuči malo rogobatno, što bi se kod nas reklo
Kazezoze Kazezoze 20:11 29.09.2007

Re: More questions than answers, professor?

Kakve će biti posledice po PROJEKAT nazvan Globalisation? Šta je "globalisation" inače?

odgovor bi trebalo da bude New World Order.
Dejan Jović Dejan Jović 20:39 29.09.2007

Re: More questions than answers, professor?

Хаџија
Kakve će biti posledice po PROJEKAT nazvan Globalisation? Šta je "globalisation" inače?



Uh, to je golemo pitanje, Hadžija. Bit će vremena, nadam se, i za to pitanje. Globalizacija nam se događa, ali se događa i lokalizacija. Ima više vrsta globalizacije - neke su (izgleda) propale (internacionalizam, "proleteri svih zemalja - ujedinite se", druge se drže dosta dobro (globalni kapital, itd.), treće se bore da ih se uzme ozbiljno ("alternativna globalizacija"... Da ne idem dalje... bit će valjda prilike i o tome neki put...
tnosugar tnosugar 12:42 30.09.2007

Re: More questions than answers, professor

ah, progovorili su Hedley Bull i Thomas Hobbes iz vas :)

Mislim da ipak kinezi imaju vece sanse da jednog dana prave/rukovode globalnom vladu. Svodi se to na demografske parametre, na kraju. Svi koji su pokusali da rastezu Imperiju preko svojih demografskih kapaciteta su na kraju prsli (Persija, Makedonija, Fenikija, Rim, Vizanitja, Britanija, SSSR, a i SAD je u remisiji...)

Kina svakako ima demografski, a sad i proceduralni, potencijal, da se siri (a i mudrost da to ne cini vulgarno..teritorijalno. Jedine direktne kineske teritorijalne pretenzije se odnose na Tajvan.

a vec imaju i 'konzulate' u svakom selu na svetu (ekstrapoliram na primeru Srbije :)
Drago Kovacevic Drago Kovacevic 17:57 29.09.2007

Dinosaurus...

Nije loše što je procedura za upotrebu komplikovanija... Bolje nego li da je obrnuto.
No i nema mnogo tačaka gde bi NATO vodio "preventivni rat"..
Kako bi izgledalo da mora voditi "preduhitrijući rat" nismo srećom imali prilike videti...o))
Neka NATO-a...
Хаџија Хаџија 18:31 29.09.2007

Re: Dinosaurus...

Drago Kovacevic
Nije loše što je procedura za upotrebu komplikovanija... Bolje nego li da je obrnuto.No i nema mnogo tačaka gde bi NATO vodio "preventivni rat"..Kako bi izgledalo da mora voditi "preduhitrijući rat" nismo srećom imali prilike videti...o))Neka NATO-a...


Заиста проницљиво!! Хм. Превентивни рат! Хоу кам ви диднт тинк дет?


On Oct. 23, 2001, Gwen McClure of Interpol’s Criminal Subdivision officially informed a group of parliamentarians from NATO countries that Interpol has evidence that bin Laden is linked to Albanian gangs which have taken over the growing web of crime across Europe. Their investigations have also shown that bin Laden deployed one of his top military commanders for an elite KLA unit during the NATO war in Kosovo. The Interpol confirmation of the direct collaboration between bin Laden networks and the NATO-KLA operations during the bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999, is further confirmed by an article in the Swiss financial daily (/Neue Zuercher Zeitung/) on Oct. 25, 2001: “According to Egyptian and French intelligence services, in the late 1990s, bin Laden brought 500 Arab mujahideen to Tirana [Albania]. They are reported to have fought side by side with the KLA and to have been involved in the most brutal acts of revenge against Serbian civilians.’’ McClure also stated that a meeting took place in Albania, in the presence of bin Laden, according to Albanian police. Several Algerian terrorists were present at the meeting. “It was during this meeting,’’ she stressed, “that many structures and networks were established for propaganda and fundraising activities and for providing the Algerian armed groups with logistical support.’’ During and immediately after the Kosovo war, when the KLA took over the province, heroin and weapons trafficking exploded unchecked. The so-called “Albanian mafia’’ ended up controlling 80% of the heroin distribution in Western Europe, when Kosovo had become a NATO protectorate.


ШТА НАМ МОЖЕ ДИНО КАД МИ ИМАМО УРБАНА!
Dejan Jović Dejan Jović 19:27 29.09.2007

Re: Dinosaurus...

Drago Kovacevic
Nije loše što je procedura za upotrebu komplikovanija... Bolje nego li da je obrnuto.No i nema mnogo tačaka gde bi NATO vodio "preventivni rat"..Kako bi izgledalo da mora voditi "preduhitrijući rat" nismo srećom imali prilike videti...o))Neka NATO-a...



Slažem se da je bolje da je komplikovana, nego jednostavna. Preventivno je NATO djelovao - i to prilično uspješno, bar za sada - u Makedoniji. Čak je zvao svoju akciju UNPREDEP
Luka Ivanišević Luka Ivanišević 23:14 29.09.2007

Re: Dinosaurus...

Ma koliko izgledalo da je NATO vodio "preventivni" rat, kako je rekao gospodin Drago Kovačević, jedna stvar je očigledna: svi smo nagrbusili od njihovog milosrdnog anđela. A svi oni civili koji su poginuli, bili su samo kolateralna šteta.
A kako bi izgledao "preduhitrijući rat"....Isto ako ne i gore.
urbanosaurus urbanosaurus 18:09 29.09.2007

haaaa zmaju... : )

Dejan Jovic
Ta je organizacija danas jedna vrsta simboličkog zmaja – ali u stvarnosti se radi više o nekom nepokretnom dinosaurusu s kojim ni Amerikanci, ni Britanci zapravo ne znaju što bi dalje. Ne mogu ga ukinuti, niti do kraja zanemariti – ali ga ne mogu ni pokrenuti.


a ova dvojica kao da poruchuju haaaa zmaju...



Drago Kovacevic Drago Kovacevic 18:18 29.09.2007

Re: haaaa zmaju... : )

urbanosaurus
Dejan Jovic
Ta je organizacija danas jedna vrsta simboličkog zmaja – ali u stvarnosti se radi više o nekom nepokretnom dinosaurusu s kojim ni Amerikanci, ni Britanci zapravo ne znaju što bi dalje. Ne mogu ga ukinuti, niti do kraja zanemariti – ali ga ne mogu ni pokrenuti.


a ova dvojica kao da poruchuju haaaa zmaju...




Ma tu dvojicu kao da je smislio savet NATO-a...
No imamo i mi konkurenciju toj dvojici...
Хаџија Хаџија 18:37 29.09.2007

Re: haaaa zmaju... : )

Ma tu dvojicu kao da je smislio savet NATO-a...
No imamo i mi konkurenciju toj dvojici...


Ду ју мин Бакуњин анд Кропоткин?

A deputy director in Macedonian intelligence was quoted in an interview in the /Halifax Herald/ stressing: “We have already provided a substantial dossier to the CIA, and obtaining further proof [of the link between bin Laden and the KLA] is our ministry’s number-one priority.’’ The intelligence official revealed that the Macedonian forces had contained the KLA assault in May, despite the KLA’s superior armaments, because Ukraine supplied helicopter gunships. However, the KLA was able to neutralize this Macedonian advantage. He said, “Shortly after that, our helicopter pilots reported being targeted by sophisticated [U.S. made] Stinger [anti-aircraft] missiles. It is our information that the (KLA] received these Stingers from their mujahideen connections in Afghanistan.’’

During the time of the Al Qaeda/Albanian incursions into Macedonia, Macedonian intelligence began reporting about the narco-terrorist connections between the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) and the Taliban, and between these two groups and high-level U.S. and British intelligence agencies. This network, which was linked through Turkish intermediaries, figures largely in what former FBI Turkish/Farsi/Azeri translator Sibel Edmonds discovered while working for the FBI and explains why the Bush administration invoked a state security provision on her to prevent her from revealing what she knew about U.S. cooperation with and coddling of Islamic terrorist groups and Middle East and Balkans drug cartels.
urbanosaurus urbanosaurus 18:37 29.09.2007

Re: haaaa zmaju... : )

No imamo i mi konkurenciju toj dvojici...


mislish drago i mi konje za trku imamo... :))
urbanosaurus urbanosaurus 18:42 29.09.2007

Re: haaaa zmaju... : )

Ду ју мин Бакуњин анд Кропоткин?


uuuh...pazi kad sam se najezhio...
ruke k'o shmirgla... :))

mada sam ja lichno vishe za dvojac guy debord & raoul vaniegem...

btw pobrisace nas zbog trolla ni krive ni duzhne... :))
Хаџија Хаџија 23:42 29.09.2007

Re: haaaa zmaju... : )



mada sam ja lichno vishe za dvojac guy debord & raoul vaniegem...


сине заборави гију и рулу,
ја ти кажем брате да је највећи анархиста свих времена Бој Џорџ Буш.
Doctor Wu Doctor Wu 18:34 29.09.2007

Dejane, Kostunica Vam za

ovaj tekst dođe bar piće... ako ne i mesto Savetnika. Što bi bilo fenomenalno, imajući u vidu kakvi su mu ovi sadašnji.
Хаџија Хаџија 18:39 29.09.2007

Re: Dejane, Kostunica Vam za

Dejane, Kostunica Vam za #Link Replika: 0ovaj tekst dođe bar piće... ako ne i mesto Savetnika. Što bi bilo fenomenalno, imajući u vidu kakvi su mu ovi sadašnji.


The European gnomes from London to Berlin to Paris, like the cat in Pinocchio kept repeating the last words of the US fox explaining to the naïf Balkan natives the unchangeable and unchallengeable nature of the decision taken by the supreme powers: “It’s a done deal, see? Nobody can change the decision.”

Instead, it was all but a done deal! Ahtisaari has been forced to abandon the stage where he tried to play the part of the hero in an historic drama. On the contrary, rotten eggs, tomatoes, and cat calls have put an end to a pathetic farce of corruption and shame.

Still, no “done deal”.
Хаџија Хаџија 18:47 29.09.2007

Re: Dejane, Kostunica Vam za

ХаџијаDejane, Kostunica Vam za #Link Replika: 0ovaj tekst dođe bar piće... ako ne i mesto Savetnika. Što bi bilo fenomenalno, imajući u vidu kakvi su mu ovi sadašnji.



It was the moment, then, to deploy the local messengers of Olympus. The “experts” dutifully obliged writing in newspapers and enjoying the sound of their voice on TV: there is nothing anybody can do, Kosovo will be “independent.” Is there the risk that this will become a precedent that destroys some basic tenets of international law? So what? The antiquated discussion on what is right and what is wrong has been abandoned long ago. It is a new world now. For our own good, the rule now is Might Makes Right.

Still, no “done deal”.
Хаџија Хаџија 18:49 29.09.2007

Re: Dejane, Kostunica Vam za

Хаџија
ХаџијаDejane, Kostunica Vam za #Link Replika: 0ovaj tekst dođe bar piće... ako ne i mesto Savetnika. Što bi bilo fenomenalno, imajući u vidu kakvi su mu ovi sadašnji.


Then the threat arrived: If you people do not accept what has been decided for you then there will be an explosion of violence. The UCK – remember the UCK – could reemerge bigger and bloodier than ever. The Albanians could start mass violence if they do not get what they want. And you Macedonians, do you remember how things started in Tanusevci after the Kosovo war of ’99? Things can start again, and who will defend you then? Better you push for an immediate and unconditional implementation of the decisions. This threat was accompanied by the sub-threat of the partition of Macedonia if the “independence” of Kosovo was not realized according to the decisions. If, for example, an area of Kosovo was to be administered by the Serbian population.

And still, no “done deal”.
Хаџија Хаџија 18:55 29.09.2007

ЕВРОПСКИ ПАТУЉЦИ ПРОТИВ ГЊИДА

On the contrary, Serbia now seems not be even interested in the offer of membership in NATO and European Union that once were the idols in front of which all the former so-called eastern European countries would genuflect and pray. Now, the Serbian leaders are challenging the decision taken in Washington. They are closing ranks with Russia and are openly accusing Washington of establishing, not an independent and democratic regime in Kosovo, but … a NATO puppet state. The revelation of the secret everybody knew but no official leader dared to say began with Aleksandar Simic, an adviser to Serbia’s Prime Minister Kostunica: “it can be concluded that the implementation of Ahtisaari’s plan would call for Bondsteel to practically be the capital city of an independent Kosovo.” Of course, Camp Bondsteel, is the enormous US military basis whose construction started when Kosovo and Serbia were still smoking from the 1999 bombing (i.e., the blueprint must have been ready before the Kosovo war).

The Macedonian public knows very well how strategic is the position of Bondsteel in the context of the transportation corridors and pipelines running north-south and east-west in the Balkans. Few can believe that such a gigantic base would be built only for a temporary operation and then, the sovereignty would be given to the independent Kosovo government. Before going to Moscow to discuss the Kosovo issue, the Serbian Minister for Kosovo Slobodan Samardzic urged Washington to give up "the project of creating a satellite, army barrack, state on foreign territory.” The "creation of the NATO state" was the real goal of NATO's 1999 air war against Serbia over Kosovo." And the spokesman of Kostunica, Branislav Ristivojevic insisted in his nationalist rhetoric: "We won't give up Kosovo, nor one inch of Serbian territory, for any kind of international integration process, whether it's NATO, the European Union or anything else… Kosovo's real capital would be Camp Bondsteel.”

Behind Serbia, the Russia of Vladimir Putin stands firm with its warning of using its veto power in the UN if the issue of independence is put to vote. China, one of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council is reportedly ready to do the same. The US, that fought its most ferocious war (1861-65) to stop the secession of the southern states, tried to threaten a unilateral recognition of Kosovo’s “independence.” It soon had to back down and deny it ever did so. Meanwhile, Russia is stating every day in more clear terms its opposition to any unilateral declaration of independence, and the more the US and the Euro-bureaucrats call for respect of the decision, the more a subtle but increasing split is becoming visible in Europe. Officials in several European capitals are expressing their opposition to the hard line on independence while in publish the dissent is taking the form of the research of a not-better-defined compromise.

Why is the Sole Superpower not able to impose a “done deal”?

Why does the normalized Serbia talk back to Washington and say publicly what was supposed to be discussed only in private?

And more in general: how come that until now the Anglo American strategy ended up winning all the games and now it is shooting more and more blanks?[/quote]
Хаџија Хаџија 18:59 29.09.2007

ЕНД ОФ Д ХЕГЕМОНИ

End of the Hegemony

The answer to this question is the solution to the present Kosovo paradox. The Kosovo situation is not the consequence of local factors, just as it was not local factors that produced the main wars and strategic cataclysms in the Balkans since before WWI. The main cause was the clash of several empires fighting for supremacy in that geo-strategically crucial area, often manipulating local population to fight each other, and always determined to keep the area divided, “balkanized”.

After the fall of the end of the Soviet Union, there was only one cowboy left with a big gun in the global saloon: the Anglo-American pistolero. No matter how short sighted, wild, and brainless, the lone gunman started and won all the fights he felt like provoking. The international institutions set up as compensation chambers among the international powers (read U.N.) came to resemble more and more the impotent drunk sheriff of old western movies. The Anglo-American gunman created new justification for his undisputed hegemony. A vast and unbridled propaganda machine could transform overnight an old tool (e.g. Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden) into the personified evil, perfect to justify a war with any means and no legalistic restrictions. All the other unarmed cowboys would fall on each other in the attempt to propitiate the gunman.
Doctor Wu Doctor Wu 19:13 29.09.2007

Hadžija, majstore,

ubedi me u dve reči.
Хаџија Хаџија 19:25 29.09.2007

Re: Hadžija, majstore,

ubedi me u dve reči.



Шанхайская организация
Dejan Jović Dejan Jović 19:29 29.09.2007

Re: Dejane, Kostunica Vam za

Doctor Wu
ovaj tekst dođe bar piće... ako ne i mesto Savetnika. Što bi bilo fenomenalno, imajući u vidu kakvi su mu ovi sadašnji.



Nemam ništa protiv davati savjete političarima, sve dok oni ne počnu davati savjete meni
Хаџија Хаџија 19:30 29.09.2007

ТОО КОНКЛУД ДИС СЕКШН

All over the globe, and in Europe and in the Balkans in particular, several semi-demented experiments were set up with the declared purpose to reshape the map of the world. Countries were to be dismembered, ethnic and religious groups incited to fight each other, powerful imperial bases placed as control centers in the most strategic areas (such as Camp Bondsteel), no obstacle, even a potential one could have been allowed to survive. Every too strong a country was to be cut into pieces, defanged and boxed into a “defensive alliance” (NATO) dominated by Washington and London.

In the crucial area of the Balkans it was not difficult to find ethnic, religious, cultural differences to be manipulated. After the first moment of euphoria in which the victorious US forces brought democracy and freedom to the oppressed people taking over the historical mission from the impotent Europeans, the “oppressed peoples” began to realize that they had been given neither freedom, nor democracy. Rather, they had been boxed in to an unstable situation in which the future was always more dangerous and scary than the present.

The Kosovo war, for example, was followed by the surfacing of the UCK Mafioso-terrorist structure that had acted as a paramilitary force in the army of Wesley Clark and Madeleine Albright. The post-war became more dangerous that the pre-war. The UCK took over Kosovo and pushed away any moderate force. At this point Kosovo is a mixture of military power mostly emanating from Bondsteel and a mafia-like economy that includes every sort of criminal and illegal activity one could find in a penal code. As always, a mafia structure is contagious, the corruptive power of huge sums of money rapidly accumulated in the hands of the top criminals is infecting broader and broader areas. The booming opium production in the liberated Afghanistan is distributed in the form of heroin by the Albania or Kosovo mafia. Misery, instability, oppression presented as freedom, pending threats of future violence and wars is the daily reality.

This has been the result of the great experiment organized by Washington and London. Like in the old horror movies when the mad scientist conducts his atrocious experiments, Kosovo “independence” was just a necessary step toward a greater horror. However, something strange happened. The guinea pigs refused to follow the script and begin to rebel. No independence. The power of the mad scientist is called into question. The experiment is stopped.




АНД ЈУ ТОТ ИТ ВАЗ МИЛОШЕВИЋ ХУ ФУЛД ЈУ!

Локал патриотс локал идиотс.
Хаџија Хаџија 19:37 29.09.2007

The Shanghai Coop

Сори иф дис пил из ту биг то сволоу. Бат, белив ми ит ис бетер ден д супозитори вержн.

The Shanghai Cooperation Organization

The reason that the independence of Kosovo Albanians scenario has been blocked for the moment at least, is not due to a moral rebellion -- to the fact that what has been imposed is repulsive and criminal. The very large majority in Macedonia and many other countries knew how wrong and immoral the scenario was. Various unharmed prophets repeated things that were well known. This, however, did not stop the criminality. What stopped it was the creation of a counter power, the arrival in the global saloon of another armed cowboy.

This new counter power took the form a of an alliance between [b]Russia and China, the two final victims of the worldwide balkanization plans
. China and Russia started a series of meetings seven years ago creating a progressively more institutionalized organization that includes also four other Asian countries: Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. The last meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO; Шанхайская организация сотрудничества (ШОС)) took place in the middle of August in Kyrgyz Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan. The official observer countries included India, Pakistan, Iran and Mongolia.

A total of ten presidents of member and candidate countries were present. Many others sent observers and asked to be considered for membership. The novelty this year was that the SCO also became a military alliance -- Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) -- and Vladimir Putin and the Chinese President Hu Jintao presided over substantial military maneuvers, “Peace Mission 2007,” with mostly Russian and Chinese troops that intended to demonstrate that local countries are going to defend and patrol” their strategic space, without need of US or NATO. Reportedly, the US asked to participate as observers. But their request was rejected. [/b]
Хаџија Хаџија 19:40 29.09.2007

Re: The Shanghai Coop

At the end of the first ever military maneuver of this kind, Putin announced: “I have decided that Russia's strategic aviation will resume patrols on a permanent basis. At midnight today, August 17, 14 strategic missile carriers, support and refueling aircraft took off from seven air force bases in different parts of the Russian Federation and began a patrol involving a total of 20 aircraft. As from today, such patrols will be carried out on a regular basis. These patrols are strategic in nature."

The US and European media were not able to come out with a clear line on the Shanghai group. Political and military spokesmen were at a loss to quantify what had just happened. Someone called it, the NATO of the East. Others called it a new Warsaw Pact. But such definitions are, both at the same time limitative, and overblown. The new alliance is just making the first steps and it is not comparable to either NATO or the defunct Warsaw Pact. At the same time, the implication of such an alliance (with many countries formally allied with the US knocking insistently at the door of the new organization to be accepted.

First of all, it is remarkable that China and Russia concluded such a substantial alliance. The traditional mistrust between the two countries is well known. Henry Kissinger and Richard Nixon were able in the 70’s to play the China Card against the Soviet Union playing on that mistrust. It was the beginning of the end for the Soviet empire. Recently an insider observed that the Shanghai Group was exactly what Kissinger and Nixon did everything to prevent. And yet, the crazy Anglo-American cow boy succeeded in forcing Moscow and Beijing to overcome any disagreement and conclude a solid alliance. More solid than the wild mixture known as NATO.

The new alliance is not an ideological entity. Its raison d’etre is, first and foremost, the necessity to defend oneself from the unchained and irrational hubris of the present Anglo-American elites.
Хаџија Хаџија 19:43 29.09.2007

Re: The Shanghai Coop

The Russian elite indeed tried to become “capitalist.” To accept privatizations and rock& roll, free market and McDonald’s. We know how the Yeltsin adventure ended up: a bankrupt country, taken over by corruption and organized crime and ready,
in the opinion of geopolitico supremo, Zbigniew Brzezinski, to be partitioned into several chunks and used as a producer of raw materials controlled by Western companies. China was to end up in the same way. The Russian elite does not have any doubt, at this point, that the Anglo-American elite does not hate communism, it hates Russia.
A similar way of thinking dominates in Beijing. This is why no matter which threats will be unchained against the new alliance, Russia and China will not surrender. They have already done that and they know that they would be smashed. No diplomatic magic can change that.

A superficial observer could conclude that the China-Russia alliance corresponds to a simplistic East versus West scenario. Accustomed to the reductionist formulas of the dominating propaganda, a geographic location becomes an ideology and a philosophy. In fact, there are plenty of leaders, factions, institutions in the West that are looking with great hope to the new counter-power. Anything but the destructive irrationality of the crazy cowboy. The more, for example, Putin confronts his strategic rivals, and the more the so-called Atlantic solidarity shows cracks and breaks.

The question of Kosovo made the point clear. Just few weeks ago Europe was aligned and obedient. Now, after Moscow repeated that unconditional independence is not going to be accepted, we see different opinions and dissent, both in private and publicly. What can Washington do? The fait accompli of unilateral recognition? It would lose even more allies. Military means? A campaign of boycott and propaganda against Putin the “dictator”? Already tried; and it doesn’t really work. It doesn’t work because now, contrary to 1999, there is a real force capable of defending itself on several fronts: diplomatic, political, propagandistic, and military.

This is going to decide what will happen in Kosovo. Even the option of unchaining violence through UCK and other mercenary forces is not a totally practicable option. Special operations such as non-orthodox warfare can only work if there are none capable or willing to react. by denouncing. When there is an institutional entity with intelligence and media capabilities, a special operation could easily become a liability because it can be publicly revealed and its controllers unmasked. This is the objective limit in the use of terrorist cut out. It could lead to its controllers.

Even if some form of independence is accorded to Pristina, it will not be the end of a process; it will be the beginning of a new confrontation because there is an independent power able and willing to challenge the fait accompli.

To be noted that the only Asian country totally aligned with the Anglo-American elites, Japan, has recently dropped its anti-China line and called publicly through its new Prime Minister for closer relations with Beijing.


kristina124 kristina124 20:54 29.09.2007

Re: The Shanghai Coop

Hijene se uvek okupljaju u copor. I uvek ostaju samo - hijene. I copor.

Najsavrseniji lovac ubica na kopnu je medved. Hijene to odlicno znaju.

Kada medved pocne da urla, hijene pocinju da drhte. Zalutali medju hijene begaju iz copora.

Jez samo treba da saceka svojih pet minuta.

I'm raised in the Bronx, Stanley, that's something you wouldn't understand.

Their destruction will be painfull, systematic and slow.

'Adzija, daj linkove, da vidimo odakle citati dolaze.
kristina124 kristina124 21:20 29.09.2007

Re: The Shanghai Coop

No matter what farter & quarter is sayin' three moves are ongoing on the table almost unnoticed.

Pawn, bishop and another pawn.

NATO sluzi samo da bi

a) USA imala teritoriju za okruzivanje Rusije
b) USA imala trziste za kupovinu jedinog preostalog proizvoda
Хаџија Хаџија 00:22 30.09.2007

The Shanghai Coop

Тенкс фор д упдејт Кристина.

Диз кидс он дис блог донт ноу вот ис фашизм.

Мај сорсес ар сејм аз јуорс, диз кидс донт кер фор сорсес онлу фор вот дади сејс.

Деј кер фор тингс ај кенот пас тру му маут.

Д пазл фитс, дет ис импортант.
Хаџија Хаџија 00:33 30.09.2007

Д ЕНД, ОНЛИ ФОР Д БРЕЈВ

China’s Nuclear Option

Indeed the clash between the former Sole Superpower and the new emerging Russian-Chinese alliance does not concern only the political and military aspect. Actually the most important front is the economic and financial one. The Anglo-American elite took a decision long ago to de-industrialize their countries, use cheap (or slave) labor from Third World countries, mostly China, and thus stop paying normal wages to their countrymen. In the immediate term this meant gigantic profits. China was producing goods for almost nothing. But in so doing, the genial economists achieved two things; first, they all but destroyed their qualified labor, and second, they gave to China the goose that that lays the golden eggs, i.e. their productive apparatus.

The masochistic geniality of these financial experts contemplated also the idea of issuing an infinite number of US Treasury Bonds that could finance an increasing mountain of debts. Who would buy it? Well, mostly the Chinese. So, in a sort of vicious circle, the Chinese labor would do most of the work from which US companies would extract a large profit. The money accumulated by the Chinese would then go to finance further US debt.

This system, presented here in a simplified form, could work while the dollar system could impose itself with the political and military strength controlled by Washington. There is only one Achilles heel in all of this. If China, or all the other countries that have huge reserves in US treasury bonds and dollars (Russia, Saudi Arabia, European Countries, and every rich producer of oil and raw materials including Venezuela and Iran) decide one day to dump them, then the whole genial scheme that allowed them to become rich without working, would collapse.

This, however, was not even considered a possibility. The military power of the US was without comparison and anybody who could even remotely challenge it would be smashed. Besides, there was a grand strategic design that would put the whole world under their direct control. Once the Soviet Union had been dismantled, it was time to smash the most populous and doggedly cohesive developing countries, the Muslim countries. It was called the Clash of Civilizations. Then, once the last vestige of independence in those countries was canceled and there was no obstacle to full looting of oil and other materials, it was the moment to start the long march to take over Russian and China. The countries would have been partitioned, balkanized and then used as a reserve of raw material and semi-slave labor.

The Balkan strategy with the enlargement of NATO was only part of a new Operation Barbarossa to encircle, isolate and then take over Russia. No raw materials were to be exported from Russia independently, without the mediation of an Anglo-American company. This made Kosovo and Macedonia, -- points of transit for transportation corridors and pipelines -- crucial locations.

Even if the continental European countries do not know it or try not to see it, they were the last stage in this deranged grand design.

All of this depended on the ability to prevent the establishment of even a limited form of independent power. But the clumsy strategists relied mostly on computer and formal logic, forgetting history and culture. In 1999, it was the NATO/US victory in Kosovo that triggered deep changes inside the Russian leadership that had concluded that Washington could not be trusted. The result was the rapid eclipse of Yeltsin and the emerging of the unknown Putin who took over Russia with the mission of re establishing its independent power with every means. But already during the last phase of the Kosovo war, the Russian military had taken over the Pristina airport. Their determination, even at that low point gave a healthy scare to the British General Michael Jackson who refused the order given by the American general in charge, Wesley Clark, to stop the Russians with the words: "I'm not going to start the third world war for you,"

Eight years later, the danger highlighted by the British general, is possibly more real than it has even been during the whole cold war. China and Russia (and possibly silent partners in high places in Europe and elsewhere) have put together an unrefined but effective military power and are expanding it as fast as they can. It is a desperate race in which they think they cannot surrender. The military dimension, again, is only a part of the game. The financial side of this war is even more important.

China gave a demonstration of it. After having been pressured by US to continue its role of playing sewer system for US debts and after having been asked to sacrifice its economy and risk financial destabilization by buying the worthless sub-prime mortgage, the Chinese went for the “nuclear option”. If the US insists in destabilizing our financial system, the academician He Fang stated, Beijing “could be forced to sell the dollar... which may lead to a mass depreciation of the dollar. Another official, Xia Bin, declared that the huge Chinese reserves in dollars and treasury bonds could be used as “bargaining chips.”

The pressures on China stopped for a while, while a campaign on the danger of Chinese produced toys was launched in the US media. However, in the US stock market the Dow Jones index went down after the statements. The US monetary authorities were forced to go for a policy of low interest rates that will provoke a growing inflation. When the worthless sub prime mortgage collapsed, Beijing announced proudly that they had disinvested from that sector. The threat this time had not worked. An immense self created weak flank, the growing mountain of treasury bonds and dollars that can be dumped at time, has become a reality of the ongoing war.


Global Research Articles by Umberto Pascali

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НА ЗДРАВЉЕ!
nsarski nsarski 03:33 30.09.2007

Izvinite

ali ne znam gde ovo da kazem, pa mi se ovo mesto ucinilo kao najprikladnije.

Sada je 21:15 ovde u St. Louisu, Mizuri. 29. septembar, 2007. Na nekoliko milja odvade je velika vojna baza iz koje polecu "nevidljivi" avioni i "nevidljivi bombarderi" - da izvrse neku misiju ili da se prebace u bazu u Engleskoj. Ja sam ih slusao svake veceri tokom bombardovanja kod nas kako polecu i grme u mraku.
Na dva udarna TV programa veceras (Fox i CNN) u udarno vreme su isle jednosatne "specijalne" emisije o Iranu. Na Fox-u - Iran: the ticking bomb!. Na CNN - God's warriors (made mostly by C. Amanpour). Ova druga je repriza necega sto su pustali ranije. Obe emisije su najcistija vojna propaganda.
I sve vreme grme vojni avioni iznad.
Ne znam kako da to protumacim, i ne bih da sirim glasine, ali imam prilicno neprijatno osecanje da se nesto kuva. A mozda mi se samo ucinilo. Toliko. Mozda sve ovo nesto znaci, a mozda mi se samo spava (rano sam ustao).
Laku noc svima i srecan vam NATO:))))
ivana23 ivana23 13:54 30.09.2007

Re: Izvinite

nsarski
Laku noc svima i srecan vam NATO:))))


Good night and good luck!?
Jelena Milić Jelena Milić 08:59 30.09.2007

odlican tekst-dobro dosli


ovo je bio pavi uzitak. i signal da blog moze postati vrlo relvantan forum za ovu veliku temu.

ne bih se bas sa vama slozila da je nato simbolicki zmaj --mislim da je on ipak prosao vrlo dugu i bolnu krizu identiteta i definisanja nove uloge i misije, i da je na sceni postkrizni period u kome postoji i neka ideja atlantskih partnera sta i kako dalje sa nato, plus sto same EU imaju jos unutrasnjih bitnijih problema pre nego se uopste odluce za svoje snage......no mi se deo o vaspitnoj ulozi u SEE jako svideo! sto se unutrasnje upotrebe DSS proglasa tice, rekla bih da je on ipak bio i za spoljnu upotrebu. ili ako nije, onda se dss grdno prevario da se to ne vidi. u poslednjem ekonomistu se jasno kaze dss i vk anti nato i antizapadna kampanja.

iako mi se ocena o paralizi ne svidja, tj ne slazem se sa njom, ocena da nato nece skoro u novi rat je vrlo bitna i tacna. u nasoj javnosti se nekako nato suvise i bez argumenata vezuje za agresivnu vojnu masineriju...kao da nato ima svoje snage a ne snage zemalja clanica etc. i jos nesto, kao da mu glavni zadatak, koji jeste ispunio, nije bio to deter, to jest da bude hladnog rata, ali ne i stvarnog sukoba. kao da se natova misija da odrzi mir i vrednosni sistem stabilnih demokratija nekako stavlja u drugi plan.

ja nato vidim i kao jedini, ne kazem uopste savrseni--idealni, ali jos uvek jedini odgovor -ili opciju-- na posast kraja 20 i pocetka 21 veka--privatizaciju rata i sve posledice koje to donosi. ali o tome vise u narednim blogovima.

pozdrav

jelena milic
Dejan Jović Dejan Jović 09:36 30.09.2007

Re: odlican tekst-dobro dosli

Jelena Milić
...


Hvala, Jelena - odličan komentar, ako smijem primijetiti, i veselim se najavljenim blogovima. Slažem se da se NATO reformira, ali fundamentalno pitanje ostaje: čija je to vojska? (U tom smislu, podnaslov knjige Veljka Kadijevića : "Vojska bez države", mogao bi se primijeniti i ovdje, uz malo ciničnosti...) UN-ova očigledno ne može biti, a da bude vojska Europske Unije, to ne može i neće (prije svega zbog Amerike). Dakle, ostaje pitanje legitimiteta. NATO danas objašnjava da štiti zemlje članice plus njihove "zajedničke vrijednosti" (whatever it means).No, tu ima jedne vrste neo-imperijalizma - osjećaja nadmoći u odnosu na sve druge zemlje i njihove "vrijednosti". NATO bi mogao postati popularan kao štit pred međunarodnim terorizmom ili nekim velikim prijetnjama samim zemljama-članicama, jer 11 septembar je pokazao da ni one nisu sasvim sigurne. Štoviše - osjećaju se vrlo nesigurnima. No, da li NATO tu može da pruži neku efikasnu zaštitu? ... Itd, da sad ne nastavljam - radije ću sačekati Vaš blog, pa možemo nastaviti.

Slažem se s ovim oko "odvraćanja" (deterrence) - to je i dalje važan faktor, i u tom smislu je NATO koristan svojim zemljama članicama - bio bi koristan i Srbiji u tom smislu. Najveća korist od ulaska bila bi u priznanju da se radi o "normalnoj zemlji", koja više ne treba biti pod stalnom lupom i prismotrom. To je i glavni motiv ovim ostalim istočnoevropljanima - i za ulazak u EU i u NATO. Jednom kad uđeš, više nema takvih vanjskih pritisaka i prismotri kao što je slučaj prije ulaska. Zato danas i pametni nacionalisti u tim zemljama podržavaju ulazak - jer će time nestati pritisak OSCE-a, Haškog suda, i drugih. De facto suverenost će im se povećati, a ne smanjiti...

Inače, pojam "vaspitno" je odličan za ovo što sam htio reći: daleko bolji od pojma "odgojno", koji bi bio neki hrvatski ekvivalent
grlica grlica 15:53 30.09.2007

Re: odlican tekst-dobro dosli

Zato danas i pametni nacionalisti u tim zemljama podržavaju ulazak - jer će time nestati pritisak OSCE-a, Haškog suda, i drugih. De facto suverenost će im se povećati, a ne smanjiti...

Dejan Jović

Vidiš to je ono što se mnogo teško prihvata u Srbiji i to je glavni površinski , na rečima , razlog , da se odbacuje i svaka pomisao da bi Srbija dospela " pod čizmu " NATO-a . Ja naravno , usamljeno , tako mi se čini , mislim drugačije . Niti je NATO idol ni ideal kome treba težiti . Ima taj sir puno , puno rupa , ali ipak je to kvalitetan sir . Kad govoriš o prevaspitnoj ulozi NATO-a prema zemljama Balkana tu si duboko u pravu , jer NATO su pre svega standardi , sofisticirani standardi , podložni stalnim promenama , usavršavanjiima ...Da ne zaboravimo : TAM više ne proizvodi vozila za vojsku , Slovenija kupuje od Finske borbena vozila , Crvena Zastava je izgubila veliki deo tržišta , tehnologija njena je u stagnaciji ili gore . Ukratko , NATO je teško probavljiva spoznata nužnost savremenog odnosa prema odbrani sopstvene zemlje . U odbrani prema raznim oblicima pretnji svetskih pojava terorizma NATO može imati i delom to već ima ulogu sa sve većom specifičnom težinom . .
grlica grlica 09:58 30.09.2007

Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije?

[b][/b][i][/i]

Da li je to bio rat protiv Jugoslavije ili protiv Miloševića ? Milošević je dobio bombardovanja . Tačno je da plan za pacifikaciju Kosmeta imao je puno kraći rok , ali ko je mogao da izmeri Slobinu tvrdoglavost ?
NATO nije bio jedinstven ? Oko Kosmeta i Srbije to je bilo najmanje značajno ,jer glavni akteri napada delovali su sinhronizovano - bombe su padale po debeloj koži Miloševića .
Dejan Jović Dejan Jović 11:34 30.09.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije?

grlica
[b][/b][i][/i]

Da li je to bio rat protiv Jugoslavije ili protiv Miloševića ?



Da je bio samo protiv Miloševića, nakon njegova pada bi se poništili svi rezultati tog rata. Ali, kao što vidimo, ti rezultati ne samo da nisu poništeni, nego se sada pokušava ići i korak dalje.


kristina124 kristina124 13:12 30.09.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

Jelena Milić
...kao da se natova misija da odrzi mir i vrednosni sistem stabilnih demokratija nekako stavlja u drugi plan.

Jelena, pozdravio Vas je jovanz021 i moli da prokomentarisete cinjenicu da, od nestanka Varsavskog ugovora i komunistickog sistema, NATO i "zapad" uopste ne uspevaju da definisu "sistem vrednosti" za koji se zalazu. A parole o "demokratiji" i "ljudskim pravima" se, zbog njihovih postupaka, dozivljavaju kao "demonokratija" i "ljudska strava".
Dejan Jović
Zato danas i pametni nacionalisti u tim zemljama podržavaju ulazak - jer će time nestati pritisak OSCE-a, Haškog suda, i drugih. De facto suverenost će im se povećati, a ne smanjiti...

A kako bi tacno odgovorili na kontra argument da zapravo kukavice prestrasene batinama koje je dobio neko drugi zure da se pridruze bandi koja maltretira komsiluk. Pa se posle pridruzivanja osecaju "jaki" i "samouvereni".
I jos, kako bi tacno trebalo da se oseca onaj koji je, ni kriv ni duzan, dobio batine od bandita, koji sada dobija poziv da se "pridruzi" ne bi li zajedno nastavili da maltretiraju po komsiluku?
nsarski
Ne znam kako da to protumacim, i ne bih da sirim glasine, ali imam prilicno neprijatno osecanje da se nesto kuva.

Dobro jutro, Kolumbo!
USA ima isuvise razloga za rat protiv Irana.

Uostalom, citaj sam: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=the+reasons+for+US+war+with+Iran&btnG=Google+Search

Ja sam vec izgubio opkladu da ce USA napasti Iran do kraja avgusta 2007. Odmah sam je produzio na period do kraja Busovog mandata.

Frka, frka.
A war with Iran would make the current conflict in Iraq pale by comparison, and would detrimentally impact the whole of America, not just certain demographics. As such, it is critical that we all put aside our ideological and political differences and focus on the one issue which, if left unheeded, will have devastating consequences for the immediate future of us all: Prevent a future war with Iran.


Gde smo mi (sa sve Kosovom) u svemu tome? Evo[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=PAS2007092
6&articleId=6900]linka[/url] do teksta Umberta Pascalija (koji je gore okacio 'Adzija). U tom kontekstu izjave domacih zvanicnika moraju da budu uzete u obzir dok USA planira napad na Iran. Jer, nikako im ne odgovara da usred ovog napada dobiju otvaranje jos jednog zarista za koje su mislili da su ga zavrsili.

Zasto napada USA, a ne NATO? Zasto su u Iraku USA i UK a ne NATO? Pa, zato sto Evropa gubi entuzijazam da finansira i krvari u ratovima usmerenim na odrzavanje americko-dolarske dominacije, a Rusija u medjuvremenu privlaci u svoju orbitu.
kristina124 kristina124 13:35 30.09.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

http://www.antiwar.com/prather/?articleid=11687
September 29, 2007
Stranger Than Strangelove
by Gordon Prather

According to a seemingly authoritative report in the Washington Post, it came to pass that, on or about 2045 hours, August 30th 2007, as the cruise missiles that had been mounted on one pylon of an Air Force B-52 – flown from Minot AFB and parked, unattended, for more than eight hours on a ramp at Barksdale AFB – were being transported to a storage area, an "airman," a member of the transport crew, "noticed something unusual" about the missiles.

It turned out these six AGM-129 cruise missiles were the real thing, armed with the W80-1 "dial-a-yield" (5KT-120KT) nuke warhead!

The Military Times first revealed the discovery of August 30th by a lowly transport crewman on September 5th. And as Barksdale AFB has been widely reported to be the staging base for Air Force operations in the Middle-East, and when word got out that the Israelis had staged on September 6th some sort of attack on a facility on the far side of Syria that was alleged by Bonkers Bolton to be some sort of Syrian-North Korean processing plant for nuclear materials destined for Iran, conspiracy theories blossomed.

Can it be that we have just witnessed Red Alert – the serious book on which the farcical movie Dr. Strangelove was based -- in reverse?

In the book-movie a paranoid Air Force General – believing himself near death – decides to leave the world a better place by ordering his nuke-armed B-52 bombers who are approaching the point where they would ordinarily turn back, to go ahead and bomb their assigned targets. The White House frantically tries to stop them, even ordering Air Force fighters to intercept the bonkers general’s bombers and shoot them down.

Can it be that a lowly "airman" has thwarted one or more paranoids in the White House?

Welcome to the world of Wayne Madsen Reports;

"Yesterday, the Washington Post attempted to explain away the fact that America's nuclear command and control system broke down in an unprecedented manner by reporting that it was the result of "security failures at multiple levels."

"WMR has learned that a U.S. attack on Iran using nuclear and conventional weapons was scheduled to coincide with Israel's September 6 air attack on a reputed Syrian nuclear facility in Dayr az-Zwar, near the village of Tal Abyad, in northern Syria, near the Turkish border.

"Israel's attack, code named OPERATION ORCHARD, was to provide a reason for the U.S. to strike Iran.

"WMR has learned from military sources on both sides of the Atlantic that there was a definite connection between Israel's OPERATION ORCHARD and BENT SPEAR involving the B-52 that flew the six nuclear-armed cruise missiles from Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota to Barksdale."

Wow!

Now, the Post authoritatively reports that the B-52 was not "certified" to carry nuclear weapons.

If true, that’s important.

According to the Post, the 21-foot missiles – even when in storage – were already mounted on pylons, six apiece in clusters of three, "for quick mounting to the wings of a B-52."

That presumably would mean that this particular non-certified B-52 was not capable of being mated – electrically and mechanically – to the presumably unique pylon for carrying AGM-129s, much less capable of arming, targeting and launching the "dial-a-yield" nuke-armed AGM-129.

According to the Post, a year ago SecDef Rumsfeld had ordered all 400 nuke-armed AGM-129s to be retired and as of August more than 200 already had been. The by-then routine procedure called for the nuke warhead to be removed in the Minot Special Weapons Storage facility and replaced with a dummy warhead of the same size and weight.

But, according to the Post, the loading of the B-52 at Minot took eight hours because of unusual trouble attaching the pylon on the right side of the plane -- the one with the dummy warheads.

Unusual trouble attaching the pylon on which the six missiles containing dummy warheads were mounted?

No trouble at all attaching the pylon – on which the six missiles containing "dial-a-yield" nukes were mounted – to a B-52 that was not certified (or equipped) to carry, arm and launch AGM-129s?

Doesn’t that seem strange to you?

Wouldn’t that have seemed very strange to them?

But, getting back to Wayne’s World.

"There is also a connection between these two events and the Pentagon's highly-classified PROJECT CHECKMATE, a compartmented U.S. Air Force program that has been working on an attack plan for Iran since June 2007, around the same time that Cheney was working on the joint Israeli-U.S. attack scenario on Iran."

Eric Margolis, a military analyst for the Canadian Sun National Media, was recently invited to the Pentagon to "brief" Project Checkmate weenies on "strategic developments" in his areas of expertise, the Middle East and South Asia.

"I asked when the Bush administration's widely expected air war against Iran would begin. This was not a subject my hosts cared to discuss. Smiles vanished.

"Dr. Lani Kass, Checkmate's formidable senior civilian official, a former Israeli military officer who had somehow morphed into a senior Pentagon advisor, dismissed my question, insisting no decision to attack Iran had been made. She called a possible air war "unlikely."

"But I was ready to bet plans to blitz Iran were being drawn up in an adjoining office.

"One could feel a buzz of excitement among Checkmate's hard-eyed officers who wore combat flight suits and tensed up every time I mentioned Iran.

"Pentagon sources say the air force has selected 3,000-4,000 targets in Iran, and that some U.S. and British special forces are already operating there.

"However, Washington sources also report strong opposition to war against Iran among the Pentagon's brass, and high-ranking officials in the CIA, Treasury, and state department. They view war with Iran as unpredictable, unwise and dangerous at a time when U.S. ground and air forces are stretched to breaking point in Iraq and Afghanistan."

So, Margolis also reports strong opposition to "checkmating" Iran from 20,000 feet among "Pentagon‘s brass and high-ranking officials in the CIA."

Well, what do they know?

"We can defeat Iran," insisted Dr. Kass, "but are Americans willing to pay the price?"

It’s nice of her to ask.



http://www.legitgov.org/minot_afb_nukes_oddities.html
Minot AFB Clandestine Nukes 'Oddities' --By Lori Price, www.legitgov.org Updated: 19 Sep 2007

The following section was compiled by 'The Pundit.'
Since the Minot story broke a week ago about the missing nukeclandestine operation from Minot, we have the following (for those who are paying attention):

1. All six people listed below are from Minot Airforce base
2. All were directly involved as loaders or as pilots
3. All are now dead
4. All within the last 7 days in 'accidents' [Not all of them --LRP]

http://www.kfyrtv.com/News_Stories.asp?news=10465
http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070915/BREAKINGNEWS/70915012
http://www.kxmc.com/News/161562.asp
http://www.kxmc.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=140988
http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2007/07/20/news/state/136489.txt
http://www.komotv.com/news/local/9679367.html

Silly me, seeing more than there is to this story. I guess this is just another coincidence.

But no doubt now that there will be more coincidences in the near future because as I have stated before, you need about fourteen signatures to get an armed nuke onto a B-52, and they may have told their wives and friends.

"The Pundit"

*****

Minot Base Officials Say Airman Dies While On Leave 12 Sep 2007 The Minot Air Force Base said an airman has died while on leave in Virginia. Airman First Class Todd Blue, who was 20 years old, died Monday while visiting with family members. The statement did not say how he died. The base said Blue was a response force member assigned to the 5th Security Forces Squadron. [The primary mission of the 5th Security Forces Squadron is to 'provide 24-hour law enforcement and security services for the 5th Bomb Wing and all tenant units assigned to Minot AFB.' "Guardians of the Upper Realm" --The host wing on Minot Air Force Base, the 5th Bomb Wing operates the B-52H Stratofortress aircraft to provide global strike and combat-support capabilities to geographic commanders. B-52 Stratofortress - Mission --Air Combat Command's B-52 is a long-range, heavy bomber that can perform a variety of missions... It can carry nuclear or precision guided conventional ordnance with worldwide precision navigation capability.]

AF Secretary Visits MAFB 14 Sep 2007 The top civilian in the Air Force spent the afternoon at Minot Air Force Base today. Michael Wynne, the Secretary of the Air Force, arrived at the base about 1 PM to get a personal look at how nuclear weapons are stored, protected, and handled. His visit comes two weeks after a B-52 bomber loaded with six nuclear warheads was flown from Minot to Barksdale Air Force Base.

Staging Nukes for Iran? By Larry Johnson 05 Sep 2007 My buddy... reminded me that the only times you put weapons on a plane is when they are on alert or if you are tasked to move the weapons to a specific site... Barksdale Air Force Base is being used as a jumping off point for Middle East operations... Why would we want to preposition nuclear weapons at a base conducting Middle East operations? His final point was to observe that someone on the inside obviously leaked the info that the planes were carrying nukes. A B-52 landing at Barksdale is a non-event. A B-52 landing with nukes. That is something else. Now maybe there is an innocent explanation for this? I can’t think of one. What is certain is that the pilots of this plane did not just make a last minute decision to strap on some nukes and take them for a joy ride... Did someone at Barksdale try to indirectly warn the American people that the Bush Administration is staging nukes for Iran?
Dejan Jović Dejan Jović 13:40 30.09.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

kristina124
http://www.antiwar.com/prather/?articleid=11687


Kristina (a i drugi) - molim Vas budite dobri pa ukratko prepricajte glavni argument, i to na srpskom, jer sigurno ima ljudi ovdje koji ne citaju engleski. Takodjer, ovo su vrlo dugi tekstovi, kratak sazetak bi bio koristan. Hvala.
Kazezoze Kazezoze 13:43 30.09.2007

Bravo Kristina!

ja mislim da ce, pre nego napadnu Iran, Ameri prvo da naprave scenario slichan onom 9/11, samo josh malo strashniji, da bi pokushali da opravdaju novi rat koji je na pomolu. Mozhda sledeci datum bude 11/9 ove godine.
Ovi stoje iza svega
kristina124 kristina124 13:48 30.09.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

Najkraci sazetak bio bi da su ljudi sposobni da razmisljaju ekstremna retkost. Pogotovu kada je dovoljan broj potrebnih informacija dostpan - ipak je za njihovo pracenje neophodno biti pismen na nelgeskom.

Nema na cemu.
kristina124 kristina124 13:50 30.09.2007

Re: Bravo Kristina!

Kazezoze
ja mislim da ce, pre nego napadnu Iran, Ameri prvo da naprave scenario slichan onom 9/11, samo josh malo strashniji, da bi pokushali da opravdaju novi rat koji je na pomolu. Mozhda sledeci datum bude 11/9 ove godine.
Ovi stoje iza svega

Ne mislis samo ti tako
http://en.rian.ru/world/20070720/69340886.html

Ne, zmam, jel' treba i prevod?
Хаџија Хаџија 14:05 30.09.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

za njihovo pracenje neophodno biti pismen na nelgeskom.


Тачно. Али што се тиче оних који не читају на енглеском
потребна је доза поверења и добронамерности.

Меџутим на овом сајту наилазимо на опструкције и исмејавање.

Питање је до које мере су опструкције намерне а до које су последица наивности.

Анализом се може видети образац понашања. Рецимо исмејавање или тролирање или

постављање глупих сличица и видеа који одвлаче пажњу од суштине теме. Итд.
Kazezoze Kazezoze 14:09 30.09.2007

Re: Bravo Kristina!

Ne, zmam, jel' treba i prevod?

meni ne treba, ne znam za ostale...
shto se tiche datuma sve se vrti oko brojki 11 i 9 , prvi put kada je tata bush proglasio new world order je bilo 1991 11/9, 10 godina kasnije se (sada je vec izvesno da je bio inside job) desio napad na tornjeve.
zato sam i pomislio da bi sledeci dogadjaj koji bi najavio novu katastrofu u svete (sada je izvesno da je to napad na Iran) trebao da ima veze sa brojevima 9 i 11.
nsarski nsarski 14:19 30.09.2007

Re: Bravo Kristina!

Pa, spekulise se uglavnom ovako:
Da ce Izrael prvo da napadne Iranske vojne i "nuklearne" instalacije, da ce time isprovocirati Iran na reakciju, i da ce onda Ameri da udare.
Usput, Ameri svako malo provociraju hapseci razne legitimne Irance u Iraku, i postavljajuci sitne bombe po Iranu. (Ne zaboravimo da je rat u Libanu poceo zbog hapsenja dva izraelska vojnika na libanskoj teritoriji, i da se pretvorio u devastaciju te zemlje).
Ovako nesto se nagovestava vec mesecima, i Dik Cejni je bas to i pominjao pre godinu dana kad je govorio da bi Izrael trebao da "resi" Iranski problem kao sto je to uradio ranije u Iraku kad im je bombardovao reaktor.
Na poslednjoj predsednickoj debati Demokrata se ovo pitanje i eksplicitno postavilo: "Da li bi bio opravdan napad Izraela na Iran?".

Evo, sta juce pise Uri Avnery Izraelski pisac iz Jerusalima:

A respected American paper posted a scoop this week: Vice-President Dick Cheney, the King of Hawks, has thought up a Machiavellian scheme for an attack on Iran. Its main point: Israel will start by bombing an Iranian nuclear installation, Iran will respond by launching missiles at Israel, and this will serve as a pretext for an American attack on Iran.
Dragan Pavlicevic Dragan Pavlicevic 14:45 30.09.2007

Re: Bravo Kristina!

Da???? A sto bi Izrael udarao po Iranu kada eto zna da ce ovi onda da ga zaspu raketama?
Хаџија Хаџија 14:49 30.09.2007

Дуги текстови и превод

Разумем Вас сасвим. Али поучени искуством, многи људи тврдоглаво одбијају да виде чињенице.

Чињеница је да Србија и Срби нису центар света и да су итекако повезани са дешавањима на глобалном нивоу.

Господа и госпође који упорно на овим страницама своде сва питања овог света на Милошевића и Србе, и који сву кривицу овог света сваљују на та два ентитета, морају бити натерана да прочитају информације, макар то значило и да науче енглески ради сопственог добра и добра оних око њих.

Ту се могу наћи и неки волонтери - који су волонтерисали за свакојаке НВО орг. у којима се говори енглески језик - и да за своје друштво преведу информације које долазе од оних који нису напустили своје мировњачке ставове.
dragan7557 dragan7557 14:53 30.09.2007

Re: Bravo Kristina!

meni ne treba, ne znam za ostale...
shto se tiche datuma sve se vrti oko brojki 11 i 9 , prvi put kada je tata bush proglasio new world order je bilo 1991 11/9, 10 godina kasnije se (sada je vec izvesno da je bio inside job) desio napad na tornjeve.


Kazezoze, ne bih se složio sa konstatacijom oko oca Bush- a i njegovih proglasa 1991.. Davanje zasluga ocu Bush- za ovake nešto je u najmanju ruku problematično i zbog familijarnih veza Bush-
Laden familije koje traju i danas. Ja mislim da je mešetarenje Bush-ovih potpuno objašnjeno dedinom
(Preston) ulogom te da nisu čak ni igrači u ovoj globalnoj igri. Pre bi se reko da imaju ulogu statista.

Novus Ordo Mundi u prošlom veku kovanica Cecil Rhodes 1900 - 1909 uloge Britanije V. i Amerike.
Novus Ordo Seclorum 1782
Biblijska Proročanstva o tri Svetska Rata.

Koristan link: ThreeWorldWars.com

Educate-yourself.org
Kazezoze Kazezoze 15:07 30.09.2007

Re: Bravo Kristina!

svakako Dragane da ne smemo zanemariti ulog dede Busha, na kraju krajeva njegova uloga se povezuje i sa ubistvom Kenedija, ali chitava trenutna situacija u svetu se povezuje sa Bush familijom, mozhda zato shto su postavljeni da se javno kompromituju, zajedno sa Chejnijem , Ramsfeldom itd.
poenta je da mocnici koji kontrolishu protok love u svetu, ne biraju sredstva da izazovu nove globalne sukobe.
grlica grlica 15:21 30.09.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

Da je bio samo protiv Miloševića, nakon njegova pada bi se poništili svi rezultati tog rata. Ali, kao što vidimo, ti rezultati ne samo da nisu poništeni, nego se sada pokušava ići i korak dalje.

Glavni cilj i svrha napada bilo je povlačenje intevencionističkih snaga SRJ sa Kosmeta i u nastavku politički pad Miloševića ..i izručenje Hagu ...to je istina platio glavom premijer Đinđić , ali Srbija je krenula putem demokratije . Ne razumem , ko i u čemu ide korak dalje . Ako mislite na Kosmet , to je problem između Prištine i Beograda , odnosno unutar Srbije između glavnog centra političke moći ( Beograda ) i centra albanske manjine ( Prištine ) ...ako to mislite , onda to nije samo NATO - Srbija , nego najmanje EU + NATO + SAD prema Srbiji ...Dakle , NATO pri udaru na Srbiju - CG je postigao cilj ...U slučaju Iraka , baš zato jer ne ratuje NATO , nego " koalicija dragovoljnih " nema rezultata , a nema ih jer je napad počeo na osnovu krive procene ( o nepostojećim kapacitetima Iraka za masovno uništavanje ) i o tvrdoglavom srljanju SAD ( Buša ) u iračke lavirinte međuarapskih sukoba , pri čemu stradaju u velikim brojevima američki i drugi vojnici snaga " dragovoljnih " . Umesto da SAD puste Iračane da se među sobom srede i eventualno zaštite Kurde , oni srljaju , kao da nisu prošli Vietnam . Međutim to nema direktne veze sa NATO-om , koji je jedna prilično savremena odbrambeno vojna organizacija . Tu nema " discipline " kao što je bila u Varšavskom ugovoru , ali oko bitnih stvari nije bilo odustajanja od odluka , pa čak i u , kako sam rekao , promašenom , slučaju napada na Irak . Inače , kakav bi to bio život u Evropi , ako bi nad svima nama bio neki zmaj . Zbog toga je bolje da NATO opstoji na teško složivim kompromisima i retkim ili vrlo retkim intervencijama .
dragan7557 dragan7557 15:36 30.09.2007

Re: Дуги текстови и превод

Чињеница је да Србија и Срби нису центар света и да су итекако повезани са дешавањима на глобалном нивоу.


Vi izgleda zaboravljate na narodnu: svakom je svoja briga najteža, ili tako nekako.
Tribalni sistem je izrodio naciju a ova sebe "prirodno" stavlja u centar sveta, isključujući mogućnost postojanja svega drugog osim nas. SVAK KO MISLI DRUKČIJE JE ANATEMISANI NEPRIJATELJ PO DEFINICIJI te je svaka pomisao o dijalogu unapred isključena. Svak ko nije sa nama je protiv nas. A američko 'ako nemožeš da ih bije,onda im se pridruži' označava konformaciju zajedničkih interesa.

Fokusiranjem nacije u centar sveta dobija se opravdanje za sve što postoji pa i najveće zločine u istoriji čovečanstva. Recimo ako pokrenete pitanje islamskih krstaških ratova u istoriji, videćete zaprepašćenost
koja se odmah pretvara u odbijanje i prisvajanje krstaških ratova kao "našeg opravdanog" rata i verskog pohoda.
Da su i te kako vođeni islamski krstaški ratovi to niko ne želi da javno kaže jer se narušava percepcija krsta kao simbola a samim tim i pomenutih "naših" ratova naravno protiv nevernika????
Da smo mi nevernici u očima i po definiciji onog drugog koje treba ubiti ili porobiti (u najmanju ruku) je postala stvar interpretacije interesnih društvenih zajednica a predmet svakodnevnog političko - verbalnog bombardovanja veselog građanina, koje ne prestaje ništa drugo do konformacije sa "svakodnevnicom".
[
морају бити натерана да прочитају информације, макар то значило и да науче енглески ради сопственог добра и добра оних око њих.


Nemoguća misija, jer ne postoji ni motivacija ni interes vladajuće elite za pismenosti stanovništva te va savetuje da pogledate kako izgleda Zbunjivanje stada
http:// www. elektroničkeknjge.com/chomsky_noam/mediji_propaga...
publikacija je na hrvatskom te ju je nepotrebno (?) prevoditi.

lično smatram da prevođenje remeti sadržaj napisanog (videti o kontemporarnim korekcijama sadržaja prevoda Biblije Kralja Džejmsa) a da nijedan prevod nije verna kopija originala.
Smatram da učenje jezika i čitanje izvornog teksta nikakav prevod nije u stanju da zameni.
nsarski nsarski 17:29 30.09.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

Bio bih zahvalan ako bi neko mogao da mi da inteligentno objasnjenje za, na primer, ovaj dogadjaj, javljen danas:

NATO, Taliban clash kills three Afghan civilians
KABUL (Reuters) - Three Afghan civilians were killed during a clash of NATO-led forces with Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan's southeastern province of Paktia, the alliance said on Sunday.

President Hamid Karzai has repeatedly warned Western forces in Afghanistan to avoid civilian casualties during operations as it would sap support for his government and would be risky for the presence of the troops there.

Da li su ove aktivnosti deo originalnog zadatka kojeg se NATO prihvatio kad je osnovan? Sta oni tamo traze? Da li su uspesni u tome? Koliko ce trajati njihova "misija"? Da li i mi treba u tome da ucestvujemo?
Znam da su ova pitanja naivna, ali ja ih zato i namerno postavljam.
antioksidant antioksidant 19:48 30.09.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

Da li su ove aktivnosti deo originalnog zadatka kojeg se NATO prihvatio kad je osnovan? ne, ali ni svet nije vise isti tako da nije cudno sto je ovakva organizacija preorjentisana na nove zadatke
Sta oni tamo traze? traze svoju svrhu (ili svrhu svog postojanja). vojska je lepa na paradama ali ne moze se samo zbog parada finansirati. potreban je neprijatelj, potreban je rat
Da li su uspesni u tome? manje vise. sve zavisi koji kriterijum posmatramo. ako posmatramo rast vojnog budzeta - jako su uspesni. ako posmatramo pada politicke podrske ( i verovatno - gubitak na izborima - onda i nisu toliko uspesni)
Koliko ce trajati njihova "misija"? - nema kraja. niko ne razmislja o svom kraju. konkretno - nato ce biti u kabulu dok kod ne pronadje novu "svrhu"
Da li i mi treba u tome da ucestvujemo? trebamo izbegavati sto vise mozemo. ali moramo paziti da nase eskiviranje bude sto neprimetnije, ili ce nas ponovo definisati kao metu (ili svrhu)
nsarski nsarski 20:32 30.09.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

OK, ovi mi odgovori deliju kao politicki logicni. Naglasavam - politicki. A politicka logika prema logici je isto sto i vojna muzika prema muzici.
Znaci NATO je obican Juggernaut (ili Frankenstajn ko vise voli), koji se rodio i sad ga treba ljuljati. OK, i to mogu da razumem - ali to sa zdravim razumom i normalnim kriterijumima nema nikakve veze.
antioksidant antioksidant 20:57 30.09.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

slazem se. ja i nisam iznosio ono sto ja mislim o toj organizaciji nego ono sto ja verujem da je njena unutrasnja logika. jedino je odgovor na poslednje pitanje (deo) mog stava.

ali na zalost ni nas zivot retko ima veze sa zdravim razumom i normalnim kriterijumima.
ivana23 ivana23 21:17 30.09.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

nsarski
Bio bih zahvalan ako bi neko mogao da mi da inteligentno objasnjenje za, na primer, ovaj dogadjaj, javljen danas:NATO, Taliban clash kills three Afghan civiliansKABUL (Reuters) - Three Afghan civilians were killed during a clash of NATO-led forces with Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan's southeastern province of Paktia, the alliance said on Sunday.President Hamid Karzai has repeatedly warned Western forces in Afghanistan to avoid civilian casualties during operations as it would sap support for his government and would be risky for the presence of the troops there.Da li su ove aktivnosti deo originalnog zadatka kojeg se NATO prihvatio kad je osnovan? Sta oni tamo traze? Da li su uspesni u tome? Koliko ce trajati njihova "misija"? Da li i mi treba u tome da ucestvujemo?Znam da su ova pitanja naivna, ali ja ih zato i namerno postavljam.

Jos jedan primer:
http://www.net.hr/vijesti/page/2007/09/30/0083006.html
A suvisle odgovore na vasa pitanja tesko je dati, ovako, na blogu.
Jedino, koporativni interesi, pa razrada...
gordanac gordanac 22:37 30.09.2007

nsarski

Da li su ove aktivnosti deo originalnog zadatka kojeg se NATO prihvatio kad je osnovan? Sta oni tamo traze? Da li su uspesni u tome? Koliko ce trajati njihova "misija"? Da li i mi treba u tome da ucestvujemo?
Znam da su ova pitanja naivna, ali ja ih zato i namerno postavljam.

Kada je osnovan (posle WW II) utemeljen je sa devizom:
"Keep Americans IN, keep Russians OUT, keep Germans DOWN"
Odgovor je bio (ako ga se iko više seća) Varšavski pakt sa devizom:
"Keep Russians IN what was given to them, keep capitalism OUT, keep people DOWN"
Bad answer.
NATO je svoje strategije prilagođavanja počeo sredinom sedamdesetih i - radi to i dalje.
I 55 godina kasnije - šta smo imali?
Jedno bombardovanje (nas), tri "field" misije (Bosna, Avganistan, Kosovo), jedna "watch dog" misija u Mediteranu ("Active Endevour" - preventiva transporta za teroriste) i "hesitating" Sudan (Darfur). I "dva" komandna centra od kojih je jedan onaj "star"i, a drugi sa zametkom "evropskih snaga" u Monsu.Partnerstvo sa Rusijom i parlamentarce kao kontrolu. "Partenrsvo za mir" je početak strateškog prilagođavanja koje ide prilično dobro.
Sve u svemu - they will manage it all.
A i mi š` njima i sa svima ostalima.Kad za članstvo dođe vreme.
Imaće protivnike i zagovornike (legitimno), neće (u skoro vreme svakako) moći ponoviti "bombardovanje" nigde i manje-više strateški fokus će biti "na granicama", pa kroz centralnu Aziju sve do budućeg partnerstva sa "Šangajskom organizacijom.
Mi? Pa sa nama su skoro već 15 godina.
I neće otići odavde.
Malo li je za prilgođenu strategiju? Uskoro će zabeležiti jubilej "najdužeg vojnog saveza ikada".
Dinosaurus? Zmaj?
Ne.
Global security. NATO + partners
Šta traže u Avganistanu?
Poslali ih posle Rusa
Da li su uspešni u tome?
Ako strategiju "zamrznutih konflikata" smatraš uspešnom - onda jesu. Ako od njih očekuješ dobre posledice po kvalitet života u Avganistanu - onda, naravno, nisu. Da ne spominjem "fields of dream-plants".
Koliko će trajati njhova misija?
Do daljnjeg ili dok se ne "razbukta" sukobi koji su prestali da se vode u smislu "manging crises".
Ili dok se ne pokažu (brutalno jasno) sve manjkavosti kao u slučaju američke intervencije u Iraku, pa se ne pojavi neki novi senator koji će reči "declare victory and get out!".
Da li su ti pitanja naivna?
Mnogo manje nego neko ko bi 1952 u tadašnjem "zapadnom svetu" pitao "a, sada su nam Nemci saveznici? vojni, ekonomski, politički? pa što smo se tukli?"
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind.
Da li i mi treba u tome da učestvujemo?
Mi VEĆ učestvujemo, kao objekt i-haj!, so, pitanje je manje-više - retoričko i traži samo mehanizme da od objekta postanemo - subjekt. I NATO i globalizacije, mislim, ako ikako može.
p.s. autoru - bilo bi lepo da čitamo i tekst o tome kako se formiraju snage za UN misije - mnogo ljudi ne zna te informacije
Radojicic Radojicic 00:11 01.10.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

nsarski
Da li su ove aktivnosti deo originalnog zadatka kojeg se NATO prihvatio kad je osnovan? Sta oni tamo traze? Da li su uspesni u tome? Koliko ce trajati njihova "misija"? Da li i mi treba u tome da ucestvujemo?
Znam da su ova pitanja naivna, ali ja ih zato i namerno postavljam.


Prati trag novca kao i uvek i dodjes do resenja
ovog puta Turkmenistan i Iran sa svojim rezervama
nsarski nsarski 00:48 01.10.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

Hvala svima na odgovorima. Rekao bih da se oni svode na ono sto sam gore rekao: u pitanju je politicka nuznost, realpolitik, i tu su moral i pametovanje o pravdi irelevantni. Ili, kako rece Djindjic - ovo je politika, a kome je do morala neka ide u crkvu. "Medjunarodna situacija se intenzivira" rekao bi Bacho u filmu "Krunski svedok". To je celo objasnjenje.
Nedavno sam citao jednu simpaticnu knjizicu koja se zove: "Sve sto mi je ikada u zivotu trebalo da znam, naucio sam u zabavistu" (All I Ever Really Needed to Know I Learned in Kindergarten" - Robert Fulgham):

Share everything.
Play fair.
Don't hit people.
Put things back where you found them.
Clean up your own mess.
Don't take things that aren't yours.
Say sorry when you hurt somebody.
Wash your hands before you eat.
Flush.
Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.
Live a balanced life.

Ocevidno, to nije dovoljno da bi se svet razumeo.
Hvala jos jednom:))


Evo detaljnije reference
ivana23 ivana23 08:49 01.10.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

Radojicic

nsarskiDa li su ove aktivnosti deo originalnog zadatka kojeg se NATO prihvatio kad je osnovan? Sta oni tamo traze? Da li su uspesni u tome? Koliko ce trajati njihova "misija"? Da li i mi treba u tome da ucestvujemo?Znam da su ova pitanja naivna, ali ja ih zato i namerno postavljam.Prati trag novca kao i uvek i dodjes do resenjaovog puta Turkmenistan i Iran sa svojim rezervama

To je u filmu JFK rekao mister X...
antioksidant antioksidant 09:27 01.10.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

To je u filmu JFK rekao mister X...

to je duboko grlo (deep throat) rekao woodward-u (afera watergate)

(u filmu je to scena u javnoj garazi)
ivana23 ivana23 10:07 01.10.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

antioksidant
To je u filmu JFK rekao mister X...to je duboko grlo (deep throat) rekao woodward-u (afera watergate)(u filmu je to scena u javnoj garazi)

Ja mislim na Donalda Saterlenda i njegovog ''uputstva'' Kevinu Kostneru u vezi dalje istrage o ubistvu JFK.
Saterlend igra bivseg visokog oficira US Army u sektoru bezbednosti (Pentagon). Scena na otvorenom, sede
na klupi... u Vasingtonu.
kristina124 kristina124 10:11 01.10.2007

Re: nsarski

Dirljiva je posvecenost sa kojom bake pricaju bajke.



Ali ovoj bajci nedostaje nekoliko detalja, inace decica nece poverovati da bebe nastaju tako sto ih donose rode.

gordanac
Imace protivnike i zagovornike (legitimno), nece (u skoro vreme svakako) moci ponoviti "bombardovanje" nigde i manje-više strateški fokus ce biti "na granicama", pa kroz centralnu Aziju sve do buduceg partnerstva sa "Šangajskom organizacijom.


Ovde nedostaje detalj o tome kako ce NATO "kroz centralnu Aziju". I jos da odgovori na decije pitanje: "A zasto?"



I, ukoliko se zeli malo realnosti



In 2003, the SCO broadened its scope by including regional economic cooperation in its charter. That, in turn, led it to grant observer status to Pakistan, India, and Mongolia, all adjoining China, and Iran. When the U.S. applied for observer status, it was rejected, an embarrassing setback for Washington, which enjoyed such status at the Association of South-East Asian Nations (ASEAN).


Samo sto pomenuta realnost pominje i fabule nekih drugih aktuelnih bajki

To reduce the cost of transporting petroleum from Africa and the Middle East, China began constructing a trans-Burma oil pipeline from the Bay of Bengal to its southern province of Yunan, thereby shortening the delivery distance now traveled by tankers. This undermined Washington’s campaign to isolate Myanmar; Earlier, Sudan, boycotted by Washington, had emerged as a leading supplier of African oil to China. In addition, Chinese oil companies were competing fiercely with their Western counterparts in getting access to oil and gas reserves in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan.


gordanac
Koliko ce trajati njhova misija?


ponovo realnost

No superpower in modern times has maintained its supremacy for more than several generations. And, however exceptional its leaders may have thought themselves, the United States, already clearly past its zenith, has no chance of becoming an exception to this age-old pattern of history.


Trajace sve dok je US sposobna da nametne dolar kao sredstvo medjunarodnog placanja za koju se kupuje realna roba, a da moze da nastavi da ga stampa kad god joj to treba. Ovaj mehanizam je glavni izvor imperijalnog poreza.



Problem je sto su ekonomije Kine i Indije u strahovitom porastu protekle dve decenije i sto su postale glavni potrosaci energenata, koji su jedina preostala realna roba (osim naoruzanja) koja se prodaje za dolar. Hrana se prodaje i za druge valute, a Kina je resila problem hrane jos za vreme Mao Cetunga, kada je pocela da izvozi pirinac i uvozi, duplo jeftiniju po jedinici mere, psenicu.



Jos veci problem je sto je zajednicko ucesce Rusije i Irana u ukupnim rezervama gasa iznosi 70% (a imaju i naftu). I sto Rusija vec snabdeva trziste EU gasom sa oko 50%. A gas je jeftiniji od nafte.



Da bi USA odrzala svoju poziciju mora da obezbedi da se Iranski gas Indiji i Ruski gas Kini prodaje za dolar. Dakle, to je zato na ono zasto.



Posto je NATO ogranicen na evropsku arenu, a pasira glavnu, azijsku pozornicu, on ce sacekati tamosnji ishod. Ukoliko USA uspe, onda ce NATO preduzeti ono sto mu bude naredjeno u vezi napada na Rusiju. Ako USA ne uspe u centralnoj Aziji, NATO ce morati da promeni svrhu svog postojanja ili da nestane.

Cica mica i gotova prica.
antioksidant antioksidant 10:11 01.10.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

znam, samo podsecam na jos jednu upotrebu pomenute recenice. trag novca vodi do mnogih stvari i nije nista cudno sto se cesto koristi u politickim trilerima.
Хаџија Хаџија 11:48 01.10.2007

КРИСТИНА124


Cica mica i gotova prica.


Ту Кристина124 фор гивинг ас д трут абаут д Роман емпајер анд иц сивилизејшонал контрибјушн то пиис, аквадакц, вајно анд полис форсес. Тенк ју Кристина.

Хаџија Хаџија 11:59 01.10.2007

Енд Умберто Паскали

Анд д аворд фор д бест анд мост онест аналисис оф тхе врлд сићујешн гоз то
Umberto Pascali оф Global Research
гивен бај д иносент виктимс оф д Импириум.

Radojicic Radojicic 19:05 01.10.2007

Re: Zašto rat i da li protiv Jugososlavije

http://www.ringnebula.com/Oil/Timeline.htm

evo ga pipeline i na mapi sa sve americkim vojnim bazama

gordanac gordanac 19:14 01.10.2007

centralna azija...

...odavno već
Radi se o USA, ali - interes je zajednički...


a u ovaj deo treba otići...

mape su čudo
p.s. sada sam tek videla da je slično već postavljeno, slobodno brišite
nsarski nsarski 00:25 02.10.2007

Re: centralna azija...

Chekajte ljudi, pa ovo je samo na tom delu sveta! A sta cemo sa kusurom?
gordanac gordanac 06:21 02.10.2007

kusur

mala verzija - US bases in the world (nije NATO, ali nije ni troll, interes je isti)


kao što se vidi - Srbija je "covered"

Ili na linku world is usa-nato one - prilično dobar sajt ("digest" informative)
kao i sličica ovde
Ipak je ovaj prsten najinteresantniji, ideja ranih sedamdesetih, "zatvaranje" počelo početkom osamdesetih, and closing and towards "close up" - oni koji su USPEŠNI ZA SEBE strateški promišljaju bar sto godina unapred

Arhiva

   

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