A Quiet War

/ 12.07.2011. u 07:55

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Shhh.... Belgrade has gone to sleep.

There was a time, though, when the White City on the Danube woke up at midnight. It was perfectly normal for people to make arrangements to meet at and around midnight when the movable feast of clubbing and cafes and bars and even restaurants would bestir itself, singing and playing into the wee small hours of the morning.

Or at least so they tell me.

They have to tell me these things because I am far more likely to be recruited by the group of grumpy old (and young apparently) guys calling themselves "Beograđani protiv noćne buke." They are currently proselytizing around town and have even lobbied the Powers That Be into the early closings of clubs and bars and other noise factories which used to work throughout the white nights of the White City.

Why me? I am guilty of liking to sleep at night. I have grumbled about midnight hooting in the street. Given a wide array of choice, I would not be likely to choose hearing turbo-ethno-neo-stupid music blaring into my window far above the decimal limit for humans when I am trying to sleep.

As an American living here for ten years, the (former) legendary nightlife of Belgrade has always been the stuff of stories that foreigners ask me when arriving here. They want to know if it is true. For my own reasons, I have never really experienced these nocturnal habits so I tell them all that I know: "that's what they say."

But the move to close down the merry-makers cuts in two ways. The first is to appease the Middle Aged Lynch Mob, and the second is (of course) to rake in a few extra dinars. Most bars and restaurants have been used to keeping the music playing and wine pouring into the night, until the last stragglers actually straggle out. In reality, most of them are probably licensed only until midnight. After midnight, you need to apply for special permission to be open. This, clearly, ka-chings in the municipal coffers.

The city is now enforcing the noise laws and the closing hours with surprising strictness - in the hopes, I believe, of forcing establishments to cough up for the extensions to their licenses. But the opposite seems to have happened. Walking around Belgrade at around ten in the evening, the sidewalks are already being rolled up and stowed away. Places that can and should be open until eleven or twelve will now close even earlier - the night owls have flown, knowing that the music will stop at 23.00 and the wine at midnight.

As a result, downtown Belgrade at night has become a desert, inhabited only by polystyrene cows and wandering lost souls wondering where everyone went. The Beograđani protiv noćne buke watch from their laced windows with smug smiles as Belgrade transmogrifies into Geneva.

And they turn to me and nod knowingly, looking for my complicity in the plot to put a damper on the city. But I cannot. I think one might be reminded of at least one irritating fact when sitting before the Quiet Committee.

To wit: Belgrade is a city. Clarification: Belgrade is NOT a country town of 26 people, two (real) cows, and a smattering of random chickens. In this condensed mass of two million odd people, we have to admit to ourselves that there WILL BE a little noise.

And by the way, I have lived near farms before. These animals make the worst noises at the earliest hours. Please sign my petition against Night Nature.

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milan851 09:47 12.07.2011

neka, dobro je i ovako

Umemo mi da se zanesemo pa da "podivljamo", i to nikako ne izađe na dobro.

fantomatsicna 10:32 12.07.2011

All for

Belgrade as it use to be.Alive

maca22 11:08 12.07.2011

Re: All for

"As a result, downtown Belgrade at night has become a desert,"
This is not true.

"In this condensed mass of two million odd people, we have to admit to ourselves that there WILL BE a little noise."
A little noise.

A little.

Not a club in the basement of your building, sending vibrations to your body, home, and brains, every night till 5am. 7 days a week. So long greedy kafedzije.

Chris Farmer 11:14 12.07.2011

Re: All for

Unless you happen to be next to the clubs which have remained open, being outside the Noise Perimeter, you will really see empty Belgrade streets as of 10 or 11 when once they had been much more crowded into the night.

Ok. Blame the economy too, but even so...

As to the basement clubs, if it were me I should be happy for the silence as well.

I only note, in passing, that this new-ish law goes the way of many new laws here: excessive and awaiting moderation.

maca22 11:29 12.07.2011

Re: All for

Chris Farmer
you will really see empty Belgrade streets as of 10 or 11 when once they had been much more crowded into the night.

Small streets have been empty at nights since always. Unless there is a night club in it.
In bigger streets and squares, like Terazije there are still people in them at that time of night.

maca22 11:39 12.07.2011

Re: All for

Chris Farmer
I only note, in passing, that this new-ish law goes the way of many new laws here: excessive and awaiting moderation.

Quite opposite. This is just another law that is not being enforced so far, as usual . Some of the most noisy clubs are still working long into the night.

Other cafe's that close around 23h have been doing so since always. No change for them.

Chris Farmer 11:53 12.07.2011

Re: All for

maca22
Bigger streets and squares, like Terazije still have people in it at that time of night.

Count them - more polystyrene cows than people.

maca22 12:14 12.07.2011

Re: All for

Maybe I should take a picture, there's just too many of them. :)

gejsocijalista 11:14 12.07.2011

Oh

So Belgraders should tolerate ungodly noise (try living near a "splav" on in the same street Plastik is) just so foreigners like you and local rich snobs can enjoy the "crazy" night life? Get over yourself. Belgrade's reputation as a nightlife destination brought it only trouble. From drunk Scandinavians (which tend to shut up when you put a boot up their ass) to the more problematic sex tourists. And before you says something about stimulation of the local economy know that most bars, cafes and clubs are owned by mobsters. So that money isn't going into the economy but lines the pockets of criminals and corrupt officials.

And finally let me just say: your right to party does not trump the right of a workingman to a good night's sleep.

Chris Farmer 11:49 12.07.2011

Re: Oh

Point Made in Passing:

"Foreigners like me" - I think I mentioned that I actually have never been a fan of night-noise or much of nightlife in general... But I do think that the laws are a little:

a) Too wide in scope
b) Unevenly applied
c) Subject to petty corruption
d) all of the above

On the other hand, our right to sleep should not impede another's right to party. A balance must be sought, no?

maca22 12:21 12.07.2011

Re: Oh

Chris Farmer
On the other hand, our right to sleep should not impede another's right to party. A balance must be sought, no?

No. Those two sides are not equal. The right to sleep and night rest is human and civil right. No one can take that away from people. No one.

Jukie 13:13 12.07.2011

Re: Oh

maca22

Chris FarmerOn the other hand, our right to sleep should not impede another's right to party. A balance must be sought, no?No. Those two sides are not equal. The right to sleep and night rest is human and civil right. No one can take that away from people. No one.

Except children. Children have the right to make noise at night if they want so. That is one of the children's rights.

(Children's rights trump even polar bears' rights. I saw it in a documentary on National Geographic. Some polar bear was making noise in front of a house and the mother came out with a gun and shot the bear and said "No bear is going to bother my children" and she was not arrested or anything, even though it was a polar bear)

tyson 13:54 12.07.2011

Re: Oh

Some polar bear was making noise in front of a house and the mother came out with a gun and shot the bear and said "No bear is going to bother my children" and she was not arrested or anything, even though it was a polar bear

The moral of the story is: beware of mothers with shotguns

Even if you are a polar bear (although I'm not sure how pandas would fare).

tyson 14:03 12.07.2011

Re: Oh

gejsocijalista
So Belgraders should tolerate ungodly noise (try living near a "splav" on in the same street Plastik is) just so foreigners like you and local rich snobs can enjoy the "crazy" night life?

I guess I fall within the 'rich snobs' category then, for I am a holder of a Serbian passport.

From drunk Scandinavians (which tend to shut up when you put a boot up their ass)

Yeah, revenge Kosovo!!

to the more problematic sex tourists.

What's wrong with sex?! Whats wrong with tourism?!

And before you says something about stimulation of the local economy know that most bars, cafes and clubs are owned by mobsters.

So not true.

And finally let me just say: your right to party does not trump the right of a workingman to a good night's sleep.

And what about workingwomen?

maca22 14:05 12.07.2011

Re: Oh

tyson
to the more problematic sex tourists.

What's wrong with sex?! Whats wrong with tourism?!

Nothing at all. Feel free to proceed to Bangkok.

Chris Farmer 15:50 12.07.2011

Re: Oh

maca22
The right to sleep and night rest is human and civil right. No one can take that away from people. No one.

We take it as a social convention that we should not bug each other. I am not sure that qualifies as human rights. And sadly, anything may be taken away at any time.

This said, the balance is here: noise permitted where it does not disturb sleep. I think this was the idea of the law. But the effect is just another occasion to extort money in licensing and fines.

And the beat goes on....

maca22 16:18 12.07.2011

Re: Oh

And sadly, anything may be taken away at any time.

Not rightfully though.

Chris Farmer
This said, the balance is here: noise permitted where it does not disturb sleep. I think this was the idea of the law. .

Yes.

But the effect is just another occasion to extort money in licensing and fines.
And the beat goes on....

Could you be more specific, what problems do you see? I'm honestly interested to know.

most of them are probably licensed only until midnight. After midnight, you need to apply for special permission to be open. This, clearly, ka-chings in the municipal coffers.

The city is now enforcing the noise laws and the closing hours with surprising strictness - in the hopes, I believe, of forcing establishments to cough up for the extensions to their licenses.

I don't see how can they extend their licenses if their clubs are in a residential building. A the law applies to residential buildings.
I also don't see that strictness. There are reports of many clubs still working till dawn, and the virtual komunalna policija claiming they do not have enough man power (for that or anything else)

srdjan.pajic 14:19 12.07.2011

I dunno

I am maybe a hypocrite on this. I like to be in a live city (that is what I miss in US sometimes). But in the same time, I prefer livin' on periphery, where it is quiet (more or less). I feel sorry for people living in downtown, but hey, one can always sell his lair in Dorćol, or (Siphon Valey

) and buy couple of decent apartments at Miljakovac. It should be quiet there.

maca22 14:22 12.07.2011

Re: I dunno

srdjan.pajic
I am maybe a hypocrite on this. I like to be in a live city (that is what I miss in US sometimes). But in the same time, I prefer livin' on periphery, where it is quiet (more or less). I feel sorry for people living in downtown, but hey, one can always sell his lair in Dorćol, or (Siphon Valey ) and buy couple of decent apartments at Miljakovac. It should be quiet there.

It is not quieter in Miljakovac. This is not problem of the downtown alone.
No one should be expected to move from their homes. Greedy kafedzije are free to move there business, or change it completely.

Covek u belom 15:22 12.07.2011

Re: I dunno

maca22
It is not quieter in Miljakovac. This is not problem of the downtown alone.
No one should be expected to move from their homes. Greedy kafedzije are free to move there business, or change it completely.

Grumpy old ppl, how can you not like them?

And a special category of those that, since their own life is so unsuccessful, thinks anyone successful must be a greedy mobster...

maca22 15:24 12.07.2011

Re: I dunno

To think that citizens of entire city are made solely out of old and grumpy people is delusional.
People who harass neighbourhood for their profit are greedy, it mindless not to come to to that conclusion.

But I could just as well say that people who like to come downtown to get drunk and vomit and piss in streets are peasant that are so culturally backward, that they have no intellectual, professional, or cultural reason nor opportunity to come to the city, that their only chance to have a part of that glamur is to get drunk in someone else's basement.

Covek u belom 15:31 12.07.2011

Re: I dunno

maca22
To think that citizens of entire city are made solely out of old and grumpy people is delusional.

Since Serbian nation is getting quite old, the percentage is unfortunately quickly approaching 50%.
Luckily for the rest of us, the majority still doesn't feel grumpy and old

.
However apple polishing that government is always performing with pensioners in order to secure election votes will take its toll once again.
If Serbia was a normal (and not feudal-oriental) country this kind of things would be decided on a local referendum...

maca22 15:36 12.07.2011

Re: I dunno

Covek u belom
If Serbia was a normal (and not feudal-oriental) country this kind of things would be decided on a local referendum...

I see you have rudimentary knowledge of what civilization is, poor soul. You see it is because Serbia is becoming civilized that the right to "neometano uzivanje imovine" (undisturbed enjoyment of property?) and "odmor" (rest) is finally becoming enforced by the law.

You see, you can not vote to get drunk in MY basement. Only in yours.

Covek u belom 15:44 12.07.2011

Re: I dunno

maca22
You see, you can not vote to get drunk in MY basement. Only in yours.

Problem is you don't own the basement, and if Serbia was a normal country you probably wouldn't even own the apartment. (Post)communists (Milosevic) government practically gifted you one...
To enjoy the property you should first earn one, and not get it as a gift of communism...

maca22 15:51 12.07.2011

Re: I dunno

Covek u belom
Problem is you don't own the basement,

No. In residential areas people from the building own their parts of the basements. Then, there are 'zajednicke prostorije' (common rooms?) who have been illegally given to owners of clubs.
And finally, even if you yourself owned a basement, if it is residential area you still can not vote to harass someone else.

Covek u belom
and if Serbia was a normal country you probably wouldn't even own the apartment. (Post)communists (Milosevic) government practically gifted you one...
To enjoy the property you should first earn one, and not get it as a gift of communism...

Now, making up is just silly mechanism of defense. :)

Covek u belom 15:58 12.07.2011

Re: I dunno

maca22
No. In residential areas people from the building own their parts of the basements. Then, there are 'zajednicke prostorije' (common rooms?) who have been illegally given to owners of clubs.

You obviously still live in communism and believe in public property... How sad.
I have an info for you, communism in Serbia finally ended couple years ago. Denying that this has happened will neither get it back nor it's good for the mental health

maca22 16:11 12.07.2011

Re: I dunno

Nono, it has nothing to do with communism. But it's okey to hide you envy behind communism. Still, no harassing people. I hope you have a good day with no yokel vomiting on your door step. :)

Covek u belom 17:02 12.07.2011

Re: I dunno

maca22
Nono, it has nothing to do with communism. But it's okey to hide you envy behind communism. Still, no harassing people. I hope you have a good day with no yokel vomiting on your door step. :)

Envy??
Yokel??
Still, no harassing people???

I'm really failing to grasp your writings. Not sure even if you understand yourself...

srdjan.pajic 17:22 12.07.2011

Re: I dunno

Covek u belom

And a special category of those that, since their own life is so unsuccessful, thinks anyone successful must be a greedy mobster...

Well, depends who you consider "successful" (to continue Djoković discussion from the last Cris' blog

). If owing a kafić, džipa & sponzorušu means being successful then "greedy mobster" would be a damn good guess in Serbia.

abrasax 17:36 12.07.2011

Re: I dunno

Nono, it has nothing to do with communism. But it's okey to hide you envy behind communism.

Hoping not to distrub your interesting conversation, would you explain this quote?

maca22 17:38 12.07.2011

Re: I dunno

Look deep into you heart and you will find the answer.

tyson 17:55 12.07.2011

Re: I dunno

people who like to come downtown to get drunk and vomit and piss in streets

I miss fun...

maca22 00:50 13.07.2011

Re: I dunno

srdjan.pajic
Well, depends who you consider "successful" (to continue Djoković discussion from the last Cris' blog ).

Spreaking of him.... I have to share this
http://www.mondo.rs/s211705/Sport/Sport/Tenis/Porodica_Djokovic_medijima-_Ne_dirajte_Novaka.html

Chris Farmer 07:40 13.07.2011

Re: I dunno

srdjan.pajic
Well, depends who you consider "successful" (to continue Djoković discussion from the last Cris' blog ).

Ja sam Novak Djokovic

maca22 10:58 13.07.2011

Re: I dunno

Chris Farmer
Ja sam Novak Djokovic

edit:

ivon.i 21:54 13.07.2011

Re: I dunno

Ja sam Novak Djokovic

Okay, I have just saw it now and have read it now.

Using BlogB92 & Politika, or vica versa, in that way ??!!
As you are spying on yourself..which, of course, you are not doing, you took a chance to write something about new, but not at all new, making benefit only for yourself.
But, but..I can not remember that anyone, in many comments on blog, here, over 240, found you "brave" (as you wrote in Politika).
Maybe I simply have not noticed that.
In that case, sorry.
Also, it is so, so sad - to stay there as i can say far worse words - to misuse Novak Djoković, his name and well deserved popularity, politically playing with him and his name worm & cold, just to make few more points for own position (or your firm position) here, in Serbia.

To make (all this) short : I would never like to have a friend as you.

One, two more things..
I do not expect the answer.
Stay well!

Chris Farmer 23:40 13.07.2011

Re: I dunno

@ivon.i

It takes a certain force of character to be so consistently unpleasant. I congratulate you on this.

And I shall not expect a birthday card.

ivon.i 23:59 13.07.2011

Re: I dunno

Yesss, honesty can be unpleasant.
On b-day is a deal.
Wish you - all the same and in advance - the happy one!

See..

abrasax 04:27 14.07.2011

Re: I dunno

And I shall not expect a birthday card.

This is a brave thing, Ivon and you are perfectly right. Just clear as everyone should go on a perfectly legal way of his own. Wish you well!

ivon.i 11:37 14.07.2011

Re: I dunno

Dear abrasax, if only, only..you understand yourself, I am happy for it.
Cos I don't.
I do not understand you out of two reasons:
What are you talking about, quoting Chris to answer to me?
Why do you mixxxx at all?

But, as it is still too early to me( just half past noon Dear God !! ) and as it is that hot in/outside, I do forgive you, the host of this ok blog, practically to the whole world.

Kind regards,
The Dying Swan

abrasax 13:55 14.07.2011

Re: I dunno

I do not understand you out of two reasons:

Well, if it is two, than, the answer is something third

What are you talking about, quoting Chris to answer to me?

I am sorry I have to say this (I hope you reconsider): this is a foolish thing to ask! But, I do forgive you.

Why do you mixxxx at all?

I wouldn't agree with you. I don't. But it is too late for me to answer your question. I have something to read now.

maca22 14:23 14.07.2011

Re: I dunno

Nole's head looks like a hot-dog.

ivon.i 14:23 14.07.2011

Re: I dunno

[youtube]http://youtu.be/yKM2lHWVjNI[/youtube]

...and where is your sense of humor, where ?!
going for a swim..

abrasax 15:02 14.07.2011

Re: I dunno

...and where is your sense of humor, where ?!
going for a swim..

Miss matches?

ivon.i 20:17 14.07.2011

Re: I dunno

Just came back ( from the sea ) only to find your nice & interesting comment-question!
As someone who hates boring stuff, I am sanding to you..

abrasax 06:40 15.07.2011

Re: I dunno

As someone who hates boring stuff, I am sanding to you..

Catch it! Sanding to you, too

ivon.i 11:13 15.07.2011

Re: I dunno

at 7:40?!!?
you are my idol..have a nice, long, long day !!

mikimedic 20:46 16.07.2011

Re: I dunno

Ja sam Novak Djokovic

ne znam sta je degutantnije - ovaj clanak

Све је било у реду до тог тренутка. Тек повремено сам мумлао себи у браду и производио звуке негодовања кад год сам чуо метеж испод мојих прозора. А онда сам био толико смео (тј. глуп) да напишем нешто о томе. Објавио сам чланак на Б92.нет блогу у којем сам се усудио да инсинуирам (прилично отворено) да Новак Ђоковић, премда изврстан играч, није цар Душан, Исус Христ, нити Растко Немањић. Рекао сам и то да је тенис, и поред свега, ипак само игра.

ili ovaj komentar

Гоца Технолошки вишак | 15/07/2011 21:08

Којим поводом проводи дане господин Крис у Србији?.

oba su pokazatelji dve strane istog mentaliteta.

maca22 22:25 16.07.2011

Re: I dunno

... није цар Душан, Исус Христ, нити Растко Немањић.

A ni ove domace uopste nije pomnuo u blogu o kome pise.

assabah 17:00 12.07.2011

i totally agree

Belgrade should not be a village. There must be some kind of compromise.
All the working people need a good night sleep but Belgrade was always noisy and live city with a very good night life which should not be eliminated.

We should not see nightlife as bunch of drunk people as it is sooo wrong. Nightlife is time for showing off, for youth, for young at heart and it should be happening.

I am pretty sad when i see more cows then people in Knez Mihailova street during the night... as it is now happening...

Chris Farmer 17:17 12.07.2011

Re: i totally agree

assabah
I am pretty sad when i see more cows then people in Knez Mihailova street during the night... as it is now happening...

Thank God! I had almost become convinced that I was hallucinating!

maca22 17:22 12.07.2011

Re: i totally agree

Mass hallucinations.

maca22 17:58 12.07.2011

Re: i totally agree

assabah
.

Nothing is turning Belgrade into a village. Even Chris himself says we're turning in Geneva.

I'd add Vienna to that.

The cafes that are in residential buildings have mostly been working till midnight since always, even before this new law (odredba/uredba..).
Those who haven't will now have to close at midnight on working days, and on evenings before weekends, at 1 a.m. And they can not bribe anyone to get extension license because they happen to be in residential building.
Other clubs which are not in residential buildings can work all night.

So what is the problem?

Isn't it enough for a compromise? What more could anyone want? And get? Above all, it is not killing night life.

As for the youth, firstly underaged children should not be getting out at midnight, but coming home. I think everyone agrees on that.

And yet, even before this law, on weekend nights, after midnight, the Knez Mihailova was filled with minors from Bataja and Surcin etc. who would just stroll up and down the street. And not sit in any club, for they have no money. Is that the youth you are talking about? They can do that just as well somewhere else. And well before 1 am. Their behaviour is affected by public transportation schedule.

maca22 11:04 13.07.2011

Re: i totally agree

assabah
I am pretty sad when i see more cows then people in Knez Mihailova street during the night... as it is now happening...

Last night, Monday! night, about 22.30h there were thousands of people out in the polystyrene cow area, young, old, foreign. As usual. It was beautiful. I didn't take pictures because the digital clock on Trg wasn't working. Apparently, everything that can be done after 1 am, can be done before 1 am.

mlekac 22:21 12.07.2011

As long as

shop in my basement works 24/7, I don't care for the rest...

If you ask me, most annoying thing in downtown is that you have to walk forever if you need to buy something after 21.

What can I say - I live at New Belgrade. We are bit spoiled

dali76 00:19 13.07.2011

don't fus, just move

I don’t like city noise, and I can not afford the apartment in midtown. Therefore, I live-in the suburb.
If you live close to the church, don’t fuss about church bells.
Simple as that.

Jelena Pavlović 17:06 13.07.2011

after middnight

I am sorry for the early closing time of some night clubs and some other kafana-s. I am glad though that the so called restaurants, or kafici, situated in residential areas (check Milesevska st.)in the new buildings, or in the old ones, in their former gardens, are obliged to comply with the new laws.

iris.davidovich 00:15 14.07.2011

...

As an American living here for ten years, the (former) legendary nightlife of Belgrade has always been the stuff of stories that foreigners ask me when arriving here. They want to know if it is true. For my own reasons, I have never really experienced these nocturnal habits so I tell them all that I know: "that's what they say."

I am guilty of liking to sleep at night.

me too.
but I also like the idea that there's a life outside, even when I have to sleep, I like knowing that somebody's having fun out there
the other night two girls were talking loud and laughing under my window in the middle of the night, first thought was - is this a dream and I'm in belgrade?

as Belgrade transmogrifies into Geneva.

or any city (NYC excluded) in US (and maybe seattle and sf)

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neka, dobro je i ovako

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As long as

don't fus, just move

after middnight

...

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