The Real Life Truth About Serbia & America

Rosemary Bailey Brown RSS / 23.09.2007. u 16:19

This is my first post to B92 (thanks for inviting me Dejan!) and I feel rather self conscious about it. Which proves to be inspirational because that is the way I think most Serbs feel about America. According to most of my Serb acquaintances, America as a country hates Serbia. America is a big mean bully, glittering with gold, nuclear weapons, and Hollywood celebrities, that personally hates Serbs and wants to cause problems for them.

When I married my Serb husband, none of his family and friends from Serbia came to the wedding in the US even when we offered to pay for all travel. People from many other countries, however, happily accepted. When my company in the US hired several Serb-based workers, some refused to come on paid trips to the home office in the US. Others came after much persuading but were terrified when getting off the plane that Americans would be mean to them personally.

The truth is different.

At most, 2% of Americans know what and where Serbia is. Some of these roughly six million people are in positions of power and have weilded that power wrong or rightly to make Serbs unhappy. Others, like myself, have supported Serbia. Most of the bad bunch get joy from pushing smaller countries around, so you can't take it very personally. Bullies are bullies. That's all.

The remaining 98% of Americans (that's about 274,000,000 people) do not know where Serbia is, or if it exists. If you ask them "What do you think of Serbia?" They will reply, "what is Serbia?" They are slightly more likely to have heard of Belgrade, but then it's been around longer. And even then, they won't know what country Belgrade actually belongs to. They would be completely shocked to learn America-prompted NATO forces bombed Serbia, and would have no idea when or why it happened.

It's not that Americans are stupid or ill-educated. (More than 40% of us have college educations.) It's just that our culture worships business and entertainment far more than politics, so politics are not discussed routinely in the US the way they are in Europe. It's not considered polite to bring up politics at a dinner party unless guests whose jobs are in politics are present. Also, you must understand we have 50 states and hundreds of our own cities, many of which are the size of Belgrade, to know about. That takes up a lot of room in a newspaper or TV news report. Then our news covers the rest of the world next, and in the general scheme of things, Serbia is only a very tiny part of the rest of the world. Lastly, not many Americans are of Serbian blood. Ireland is a tiny country which most Americans know lots about because so many people have ancestors there.

So the fact is, nearly no one in America knows Serbia exists, much less has any passionate hatred for it. Serbs visiting the US will recieve a wholehearted warm welcome. We like visitors. We like foreigners. We love to be hospitable. We are the people who add "Have a nice day!" with a big fat smile onto the end of every conversation. We may be a little shallow at times, but we sure are friendly.

Why am I telling you this? I think Serbia has a big opportunity at this moment in time, You can make an impression on the world, grow your national "brand". You can decide how you would like Serbia to be perceived and then use marketing and PR to get the word out. There is an information void waiting to be filled.

If you just complain like sullen teenagers that "Everybody hates us" then that is what will happen. (Does anyone besides a Mother love a sullen teenager?)

If however, you decide that you think Serbia and Serbs are fantastic, then the world is likely to join with you in your opinion.

The fact is, I and many of my expatriot friends (people from other countries who have lived in Serbia) think that Serbia is a very special country. Many of us have moved to Serbia or plan to move to Serbia. We like it here. It's a wonderful place. Too bad more Serbs don't agree with us.

But then many of you don't have the perspective of being a foreigner here, let alone travel to other countries. I hope to bring that perspective to you in future posts.



Komentari (87)

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Goran Miletic Goran Miletic 16:46 23.09.2007

hi

Dear Rosemary,

Welcome to out lovely blog community ! Really good text, but I am not sure that majority of members of xenophobic will believe you :)

Anyway, I can only agree with explanations...
Jelena Pavlović Jelena Pavlović 16:56 23.09.2007

hi

“But then many of you don't have the perspective of being a foreigner here, let alone travel to other countries. I hope to bring that perspective to you in future posts. “

Many of the Americans don’t have passports and haven’t traveled further than the nearest big city. Geographical isolation=physical isolation=the lack of good and solid education=low income=the rise of ignorance which leads to hatred, misunderstanding, apathy... So, we are very similar after all.

Milan Rakić Milan Rakić 17:16 23.09.2007

Re: hi

To begin with: Welcome Rosemary!

Jelena Pavlović
Many of the Americans don’t have passports and haven’t traveled further than the nearest big city. Geographical isolation=physical isolation=the lack of good and solid education=low income=the rise of ignorance which leads to hatred, misunderstanding, apathy... So, we are very similar after all.
You must be very brave daring to compare us (Serbia) and them (USA), I would say that we have nothing similar, at all. Delving into history is not good, however, USA knew where it wanted to go and what it wanted to be after gaining independence, and what about us, still having passports of a non-existent country and blaming everything on the Turks (or Slovenians, or Croats, or Bulgarians, or Hungarians, or Romanians, or Montenegrins, or Albanians, or...). Here is my full stop when it comes to history.

I think that Rosemary's post was very good, bringing a view from a different perspective. If people would not only read but try to understand the meaning of the post as well, moreover, learn from it, it would be a huge benefit. Unfortunately, Serbs seldom learn from other let alone take advices (from Americans). Why try to do something innovative, bring prosperity and improvements when we have other important things to do (save Kosovo, protect our Prime Minister and his puppets from reporters, attract Russian investments...)?
Jelena Pavlović Jelena Pavlović 17:35 23.09.2007

Re: hi

Ma ne, Milane, Rozmarin tekst je dobar, samo sto sam ja sebi dozvolila da komentarisem misljenje zasnovano na iskustvu zivota u obe zemlje. Iskreno smatram da izolovanost bilo ona fizicka, ili kroz nedovoljno obrazovanje, dovodi do nesporazuma. Ljudi se ne razumeju jer nemaju prilike da vide gde i kako oni drugi, o kojima su culi, koje optuzuju, mrze....zive. Drug mog sina, Amerikanac, zbog toga sto je moj sin poreklom Srbin, sedne za kompjuter i trazi podatke o Srbiji, o Beogradu, slusa Parti Brejkerse, cak pokusava da nauci fraze na srpskom. Ovo je mali bezncajan primer, ali pozitivan. Ali, ako imate citavu naciju kojoj se prodaje ideja mrznje jedne nacije, prema drugoj, odnosno razlozi za napad jedne nacije od strane druge, ili opravdanje za invaziju Iraka,, bombardovanje Beograda, ili kako Srbi opravdavaju svoja nedela prema drugima i drugih prema Srbima,onda je potrebno da se nadju resenja. Lepo je pokusati sa diplomatijom dobre volje i ja u tome sasvim podrzavam gospodjin tekst. Svako od nas, po na osob, moze da postane ambasador dobre volje. To jeste hrabrost.
gordanac gordanac 17:51 23.09.2007

timeline

jelena pavlović:
...So, we are very similar after all....

and I agree.
milan rakić:
You must be very brave daring to compare us (Serbia) and them (USA), I would say that we have nothing similar, at all. Delving into history is not good, however, USA knew where it wanted to go and what it wanted to be after gaining independence, and what about us, still having passports of a non-existent country and blaming everything on the Turks (or Slovenians, or Croats, or Bulgarians, or Hungarians, or Romanians, or Montenegrins, or Albanians, or...). Here is my full stop when it comes to history.

and I do not agree
Because of the timeline you have to have in mind when comparing.
Their independence took place about a 100 years before Serbia (1776 for USA - 1878 for Serbia). and they used to kill their presidents, too. Used to have civil war as well. At the time when in Serbia everybody could be educated, in USA it took National Guard for a black girl to enter University in Alabama, and at the same time KKK had over 5 000 000 members. Less than ten years ago they had "Florida recount" ....If compared economically or by political influence Serbia does not have a chance to be compared ("orange and apple" or "grandmothers and frogs", but that is not the issue in this post, it is about similarities among people based on their everyday "matrix", and there are similiraities, a lot of.
What people of America should know is that a lot of people in Serbia share the view about USA Governments with quite a lot of people in the world.
A lot of people see THEM as bad guys.
Maybe we could sell them "know-how" for the role, we were seen in same way for quite a long time, but not anymore, except at home. I think that is the point of the post.
Milan Rakić Milan Rakić 08:31 24.09.2007

Re: timeline

gordanac
... Because of the timeline you have to have in mind when comparing.
And I do not agree.

To be honest I did not think of the various dates when the independence was obtained, I find it obsolete, and I am quite surprised that You do it. When will Serbians forgett looking into the past? One slained Serbian politician (I think you know which?) used to say that one should look at the broader picture and that was what I did. Slovenia gained their independence in 1991 and we know all where they are now, a footstep away from activating the Schengen agreement, whereas we have to beg for tourist visas (I will refrain from commenting the disgracing law being discussed in the parliament now). This is an example of the broader picture that I am talking about. And please, don't mention racism and the KKK, I have personally not seen such racism to such an extent in any (western) European country, and believe me. I live in Malmø, Sweden, where more that 30% are Moslem's of whom a vast majority wear headscarf's (of all kinds) and the people is not bothered with it; should I try to imagine what would happen if a Moslem was wear a headscarf in Niš? I hope you understand what I mean?

I would not like to pull up other examples, although I veered of topic, this is all a part of the broader picture!
gordanac gordanac 10:08 24.09.2007

Re: timeline

Slovenia gained their independence in 1991 and we know all where they are now, a footstep away from activating the Schengen agreement, whereas we have to beg for tourist visas (I will refrain from commenting the disgracing law being discussed in the parliament now).

timeline again, they did it through 14 years, and we are doing it for last 6 years, and Slovenia is comparable if you look at Slovenia in 1996, and again it is not what the post is about
and there are similiraties between Slovenians an us too, a lot of
that is broader picture, we share the space, but we do not share the time, that is what I am talking about
And the reasons for "Serbia being lost in time" is totally different story, I agree with you on that.
I allways look at similiraties, differencies are easy to find
dragan7557 dragan7557 11:39 24.09.2007

Re: domaćica

A, gde je domaćica na ovom blogu????????

Ili je kao o kobloger Dželič zauzeta kreiranje bolje budućnosti aktivnim učešćem u vlasti????????
Milan Rakić Milan Rakić 08:18 25.09.2007

Re: timeline

Well, first decide when we gained independence, in 1878 or in 2005 (as you say "in the last 6 years", and I dare to say that we share the time, except in some peoples mind's which are still tuned back some 200-300 years. However, lets change lanes, I think that we should and must look forward and not backward.
gordanac gordanac 08:31 25.09.2007

Re: timeline

I think that we should and must look forward and not backward.

and I agree
and we need to "turn back the turned time in a lot of heads", that is why I am mentioning "timeline", for the people who do not see because they do not want to see (the worst type of blindness)
first decide when we gained independence

...well, it seems that we had to do it at least - twice so far! :))
and it does have to do a lot with the lack of acceptance of the idea (quoted above) that we agree upon
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 17:06 23.09.2007

Why do they hate us, boohoo?

So the fact is, nearly no one in America knows Serbia exists, much less has any passionate hatred for it.

Whenever I meet people who think that the America hates us, I'm befuddled by the stupidity of it. What is worse, many of these are highly educated. I guess that some people have a natural tendency to adopt simplistic world views, in this case a Serbo-centric one.
FlyingFish FlyingFish 11:51 24.09.2007

Re: Why do they hate us, boohoo?

adam weisphaut
So the fact is, nearly no one in America knows Serbia exists, much less has any passionate hatred for it.What is worse, many of these are highly educated. I guess that some people have a natural tendency to adopt simplistic world views, in this case a Serbo-centric one.


Rosemary - it was good seeing your text here! You can do a lot with this because, as you advised the Serbs, if you yourself don't tell us what your nation is about, no one else will. In a wierd way, we are alike - the image if both our nations are equilized with the images of our Governments' policies.

Adam -
Whenever I meet people who think that the America hates us, I'm befuddled by the stupidity of it.

Whenever I meet people who see America as the epitome of democtacy and love, I am gob-smacked by the stupidity of it.
What is worse, many of these are highly educated.

Were you in the country in the spring of 1999? Do you remember the syrens, detonations, power and water cuts, looking at the sky day and night, anticipating the worst?
I guess that some people have a natural tendency to adopt simplistic world views, in this case a Serbo-centric one
It is a simplistic view - they simply bombed Serbia and innocent people died. I would say that the reaction is rather survival-centric.
Kazezoze Kazezoze 13:53 24.09.2007

Uninteligent design

adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 09:30 25.09.2007

Re: Why do they hate us, boohoo?

I've just noticed your reply, so I'm sorry you've had to wait for the reply.
FlyingFish

Whenever I meet people who see America as the epitome of democtacy and love, I am gob-smacked by the stupidity of it.

I don't idealize the US. if that's what you think. However if you view the US as a country, but in the domain of hr and democracy, comparatively it surpasses by far a great number of countries, especially Serbia's darling Russia. I myself prefer the democracy of EU and ardently advocate that Serbia should become its member state.

Were you in the country in the spring of 1999? Do you remember the syrens, detonations, power and water cuts, looking at the sky day and night, anticipating the worst?

Well my city was bombed heavily and Ićve had recently had a team of demolition experts sweeping the terrain outside of my building, trying to find cluster bombs that might have stayed on from that period. However, I cannot but ask you have you a selective memory? Don't you remember what was being done in Kosovo at the time and that time by Milosevic-led forces.
It is a simplistic view - they simply bombed Serbia and innocent people died. I would say that the reaction is rather survival-centric.

Right, and it is a great survival strategy to define the greatest power in the world as your sworn enemy, when it is not na absolutely vital national interest.
FlyingFish FlyingFish 11:04 25.09.2007

Power without control means nothing

Remember this slogan from a commmercial for tyres? Snaga bez kontrole ne znaci nista.

There is absolutely no dispute that the States are the greatest power in the world and that Serbia then (and, alas, I daresay now) was unbelievably dim to have such an attitude and there is a price for that. America has power. But is their foreign policy really the way that power should be exercised?! Power without control means nothing, cowboys!

I agree with you about EU and Russia, but, sorry, your arguments about the US are just not on. And they are not on because we are here talking about their foreign, not internal, affairs (HR and the democracy that you mention are practiced in the US, not in the countries they bully around).
I am here referring to the US, which did not sign the Kyotto. The US that did not sign The UN Charter of Children's Rights. The US which have not abolished death penalty. The US that are for years now trying to bomb democracy into people across the Globe. The Americans who call themselves patriots, but for whom everybody else's patriotism is nationalism...

And, regarding the selective memory... We all know what was going on on Kosovo at that time. But - what did you, Adam Weisphaut, do to deserve sitting in your flat, with cluster bombs exploding around you?

If they knew, as they did know, that Milosevic was the driving force behind the crimes, why didn't they just do him in? Don't tell me that that was not feasible. And if they knew (as they did know) that the population of Belgrade is strongly opposed to the Milosevic regime, why did they bomb civil targets there? Don't tell me that they didn't.

The thing is - they did it only to excercise power, to show they are the most powerful nation in the world. With such arrogance and intimidation tactics, I wonder where we can squeeze at least a grain of democracy they are boasting about!
sheridan sheridan 13:38 25.09.2007

Re: Power without control means nothing

FlyingFish
Remember this slogan from a commmercial for tyres? Snaga bez kontrole ne znaci nista.

There is absolutely no dispute that the States are the greatest power in the world and that Serbia then (and, alas, I daresay now) was unbelievably dim to have such an attitude and there is a price for that. America has power. But is their foreign policy really the way that power should be exercised?! Power without control means nothing, cowboys!

I agree with you about EU and Russia, but, sorry, your arguments about the US are just not on. And they are not on because we are here talking about their foreign, not internal, affairs (HR and the democracy that you mention are practiced in the US, not in the countries they bully around).


Really? And how does anyone exercise democracy in the countries where people do not vote for them? Also, what do you think are the issues with control over the "power of america" as exercised by american voters, their senate, and congress, by other NATO governments and UN SC?What about their own internal judiciary, what issues do you see there? Also, what constitutes this "power of america" and who do you think controls it?

Or maybe you are just one of those people who think of america as a naughty and nasty person and on the other hand believes that "democratic" means more or less the same as nice and fair? It does not. It is a description of a system of government, also very little to do with original Athenian one.

FlyingFish

I am here referring to the US, which did not sign the Kyotto. The US that did not sign The UN Charter of Children's Rights. The US which have not abolished death penalty.


Yeah....and your point is? how are these things not democratic, and how do they affect the freedom of american people?

FlyingFish

The US that are for years now trying to bomb democracy into people across the Globe. The Americans who call themselves patriots, but for whom everybody else's patriotism is nationalism...


Oh, is that right, americans are patriots? All of them? Majority? Blimey, you have some serious statistics there! Pray share them!

FlyingFish

And, regarding the selective memory... We all know what was going on on Kosovo at that time. But - what did you, Adam Weisphaut, do to deserve sitting in your flat, with cluster bombs exploding around you?
If they knew, as they did know, that Milosevic was the driving force behind the crimes, why didn't they just do him in? Don't tell me that that was not feasible. And if they knew (as they did know) that the population of Belgrade is strongly opposed to the Milosevic regime, why did they bomb civil targets there? Don't tell me that they didn't.


Of course, he could have joined the milions on the streets of Belgrade protesting against the masacres in Kosovo. He could have help hide all those military and police conscripts who refused to go there and do the bidding of the nationlist government. Maybe he could have at least signed any one of milions of petitions asking for withdrawal of serbian troops from there. Possibly he could have been one of milions of supporters of numerous Serbian political parties oposed to nationalism?

All the suffering of the albanian people in kosovo was ignored or supported by most of the population of serbia. It was not purely a whim of a crazed dictator and his private militia. Besides all this, NATO did bomb strategic targets only (well mostly). Anyway, I would be curious to hear about the civilian targets bombed in Belgrade (aside from television objects, which were not civilian and there was plenty of warning about it anyway).

FlyingFish


The thing is - they did it only to excercise power, to show they are the most powerful nation in the world. With such arrogance and intimidation tactics,


Nope. They did it to stop the advance of serbian army and militias in kosovo (also, if I remember well, this was a NATO action, not american army). In which they succeeded.

FlyingFish

I wonder where we can squeeze at least a grain of democracy they are boasting about!


As I said, once you learn somehow and somewhere what democracy is, you will see how silly this sentence is.
FlyingFish FlyingFish 14:07 25.09.2007

Re: Power without control means nothing

All the suffering of the albanian people in kosovo was ignored or supported by most of the population of serbia.
Blimey, you have some serious statistics there! Pray share them!

As I said, once you learn somehow and somewhere what democracy is,
Since you obviously know something I don't, can you please provide me with defining features of a democratic government/state? Many thanks,

sheridan sheridan 14:40 25.09.2007

Re: Power without control means nothing

FlyingFish
All the suffering of the albanian people in kosovo was ignored or supported by most of the population of serbia. Blimey, you have some serious statistics there! Pray share them!


I did, albeit in a somewhat sarcastic manner. There were no manifestations of dicontent, no petitions, demonstrations, strikes, massive desertations etc. (well none to speak of, there always was a decent but tiny minority) to demonstrate otherwise. Several elections and public votes in years after the events where exactly the same politics and same politicians keep winning by overwhelming majorities are further prof of this.

FlyingFish

As I said, once you learn somehow and somewhere what democracy is, Since you obviously know something I don't, can you please provide me with defining features of a democratic government/state? Many thanks,



I asked first Besides, it really is too broad a subject for this forum. To point you in the right direction, democracy (most broadly) refers to a situation where the people have a high level of control over their own government (and a lot more besides it but not the point here) - you are talking about american international politics. Even if this was all bad and nasty and done by america alone as a demonstration of her military might (which it is not, but again, not the point), this is nothing to do with the relationship between american government and american people. Does this help?



adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 14:50 25.09.2007

Re: Power without control means nothing

Of course, he could have joined the milions on the streets of Belgrade protesting against the masacres in Kosovo. He could have help hide all those military and police conscripts who refused to go there and do the bidding of the nationlist government. Maybe he could have at least signed any one of milions of petitions asking for withdrawal of serbian troops from there. Possibly he could have been one of milions of supporters of numerous Serbian political parties oposed to nationalism?

Actually I and the rest of my family were ardent supporters of Dindjic's party at the time , and I even became its member during the bombing whilst it was publicly proclaimed a semi-enemy organization. As for deserters I could have sheltered, I didn't know any at the time It's not that there weren't any people against Milosevic, it was just that they were a minority
sheridan sheridan 15:00 25.09.2007

Re: Power without control means nothing

adam weisphaut

....
Actually I and the rest of my family were ardent supporters of Dindjic's party at the time , and I even became its member during the bombing whilst it was publicly proclaimed a semi-enemy organization. As for deserters I could have sheltered, I didn't know any at the time It's not that there weren't any people against Milosevic, it was just that they were a minority


I have no doubts about that. That part of my reply was meant to be sarcastic, and I do completely agree that there were some people against milosevic, only too few. Even fewer were ready to stand up and criticise actions in kosovo - which was my point, but which is now diverging too far from the subject of the blog so I suggest we leave it there.

have a nice day

jankovicf jankovicf 15:10 25.09.2007

Re: Why do they hate us, boohoo?

It's not the American people's fault that we have been bombed by American army.
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 16:35 25.09.2007

Re: Power without control means nothing

Hey, I know you were being sarcastic, I was but pointing out you had chosen a bad example to use, nothing more
bye
Nietzsches Aprentice Nietzsches Aprentice 17:24 23.09.2007

...

You can make an impression on the world, grow your national "brand". You can decide how you would like Serbia to be perceived and then use marketing and PR to get the word out. There is an information void waiting to be filled.


I would very much like to believe this. However, the truth is, a tremendous amount of bad marketing has already been done for Serbia (and not only by Serbia itself). I'm in New Jersey, east coast, people are somewhat (at least nominally) more informed about the tidings from around the world. Still, I get name-calling more often than I like, coming from people who have informed themselves about Serbia only marginally enough to be able to say the name of the country without mispronunciation. I'll grant you one thing - most people really don't know a darn thing about Serbia. Some know through tennis (which does appear to be the best way for the first acquaintance with Serbia, judging by many positive comments I've heard recently). In the end, nothing in this life comes without a fight, therefore we do have a big battle ahead of us on order to create/change the image of our country beyond what is known or what is percieved as true and delivered by politicians.

To end my word of welcome I will say the following - one will do well not to heed much what politicians say, for their allegiance rarely lies with truth...
Željka Buturović Željka Buturović 17:42 23.09.2007

omnipotent branding

Why am I telling you this? I think Serbia has a big opportunity at this moment in time, You can make an impression on the world, grow your national "brand". You can decide how you would like Serbia to be perceived and then use marketing and PR to get the word out. There is an information void waiting to be filled.

and how is this supposed to work, exactly? serbs decide that they are, say, rich and fun, they put on a clever ad and suddenly everybody starts believing it?

american politicians (i mean, all three of them that actually care about serbia) still believe that serbia 2007 is the same as serbia 1999, despite abundant evidence to the contrary. there is a great deal of inertia in american politics toward serbia and there are no magic tricks by which its main thrust can be reversed. the goal of serbian foreign policy should not be that americans like serbs (which is near-impossible at this point in history) but that they forget about them. the fact that a great majority of americans is already clueless about serbia is a great thing, not a problem requiring a solution.
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 17:54 23.09.2007

Re: omnipotent branding

american politicans (i mean, all three of them that actually care about serbia) still believe that serbia 2007 is the same as serbia 1999, despite abundant evidence to the contrary.

When many Serbian politicians are doing their best to keep the continuity with Milosevic's politics maybe they are not
mistaken after all ?
DejanOz DejanOz 06:43 25.09.2007

Re: omnipotent branding

adam weisphaut
When many Serbian politicians are doing their best to keep the continuity with Milosevic's politics maybe they are not mistaken after all ?
Serbia is not Serbian politicians (although they'd undoubtedly love to think so).
jankovicf jankovicf 15:15 25.09.2007

Re: omnipotent branding

we are not talking about politics here. Politics has nothing to do with the real feelings and beliefs. American politicians can treat Serbia however they like because they can afford it. I don't say it's how it is supposed to be it's just the way it is...
Dejan Bizinger Dejan Bizinger 17:50 23.09.2007

Welcome aboard!

I'm glad that you accepted invitation to write on B92 Blog and to find time for writing here. I agree with others that the article is very good, I'm quite sure that almost no one in USA knows something about Serbia (many of them maybe first heard about the Serbia because the last US Open or CNN). Today Tipsarevic told that it is great that some small country like Serbia succeeded to beat big Australia because many people when they think of Serbia think it like it is a "CNN country". Sad, but true. If you get the first impression of some country via CNN, usually it is not good.

I agree with Jelena Pavlovic with her statement that isolation (whether the Serbian or US case where people don't need passports because find all things in USA) and lack of motivation to learn about other countries and cultures is a good path for misunderstanding.

American official politics <=> American people

I'm looking forward to reading your future posts.
jankovicf jankovicf 15:17 25.09.2007

Re: Welcome aboard!

American official politics <=> American people


I totally agree.
snezana mihajlovic snezana mihajlovic 17:58 23.09.2007

...

politics are not discussed routinely in the US the way they are in Europe. It's not considered polite to bring up politics at a dinner party unless guests whose jobs are in politics are present

I'd like to see that here...
Interestingly enough, it seems that the more we are interested in politics, the less success is achieved by those who are supposed to be involved in it professionally.
Serbs visiting the US will receive a wholehearted warm welcome

I've never been there, but I know what you're talking about. When my dog was diagnosed with lymphoma, the vet suggested euthanasia without even trying. I've contacted a number of people via internet, and I couldn't believe that one of the finest vets answered my mail offering help. Moreover, a woman, I've never met in my life, sent me some vitamins and supplements, as well as various books, simply because she wanted to help and she wouldn't let me pay for anything. I was truly amazed.
Too bad more Serbs don't agree with us.

That's precisely why it's good to see the other side of the coin. Welcome.
jankovicf jankovicf 15:21 25.09.2007

Re: ...

politics are not discussed routinely in the US the way they are in Europe. It's not considered polite to bring up politics at a dinner party unless guests whose jobs are in politics are present


I'd like to see that here...
Interestingly enough, it seems that the more we are interested in politics, the less success is achieved by those who are supposed to be involved in it professionally.


I agree. When you live in NY for instance, you can live the whole life and don't hear a word about politics. Here... well you know. Here everything stops when it's elections time...
berab berab 19:27 23.09.2007

The real truth about America

Rosemary did not write about Serbia and Serbs but whole time about America and problems USA has with rest of the world.She has to understand which role US plays in the world policy.As a huge country and super power America took the right to arrange the world according its owncriteria.It is inevitable to crash with the people and countries impacted with this behavior.
But it is not the problem of regulary people who have no influence on those politcs.It is the matter of leading poticions and administration using the force and power to order the world.This part of America could not be accepted causing resistance,even hatrade not only in Sebia.America lost much of its popularity after WW 2 thanks to many intervention and suporting nondemocratics regimes during cold war.I have the impression that vast majority of American population suport this politics which is not accepted in the rest of the world.So Rosemary has to consider about the American nation and lack of understanding other people.They belive they are superior and have always right.They are just human beigs as each human being on this planet and not superior creature because their country is great,reach and strong.
Soylent Green Soylent Green 20:11 23.09.2007

insult to the injury ...

Well, now you did it.

Being hated is something serbs can live with.

Actually it's not much different from the guilt syndrome many (especially those that identify themselves as progressive) americans exhibit. The difference is, most of the world heard about america - either via media or ordnance broadcasts.

But being ignored is no-go.

By debunking the primary source of serbian identity (the hatred by Others) as an illusion, you have committed a capital sin.
Olga Medenica Olga Medenica 20:36 23.09.2007

Dear Rosemary,

Most of Serbs that I know do not travel
even if all is settled and paid for
because they can not be bothered to queue / converse / answer…..
in order to obtain a visa.
That's it.
All is excuse. And if we answer to it, it's considered patronising.
So, much that you think that Serbs are sweet, watch your steps.

Regards

Olga (from, alas, London)
Olga Medenica Olga Medenica 20:38 23.09.2007

Ah, some fun

Family Guy and PornoSlavia

Armitage Armitage 21:08 23.09.2007

Da je bilo sreće...

Dear Rosemary,
Your text really touched me. Actually it pushed my button... I red it several times thinking "and after all she has the nerve..." So as the one who feels touched and pushed I have to reply...

1) My personall reason of not coming to USA is humiliating visa procedure, dehumanizing giving up on my human rihgts by biomatric and personall data that I am obligated to leave for free use to Your government, and overall poor safety of USA streets, even of Belgade sized towns (I am more likely to be victim of terrorist attack in USA than in Serbia, also I am more likely to be accidentally shot by a gun there). Second reson is, and here I agree with You, absolute ignorance of people in USA.

2) Too bad that some people in USA noticed where Serbia actually is! If all of you wew clueless it would have been far better for us! Furthermore, I am sure that majority of Americans would hate Serbs if they had oportunity to watch Serbia through CNN glasses again.

3) Serbia is big opportunity for You because Your governmant conveniently created this opportunity by destroying our transport network, major factories and economy, and is responsible for creating ever-lasting conflict area. If that is where You seek Your opportunity...

4) "You don't make frends with sallad." - Marge Simpson – cartoon character. You simply don't make friends by bulling them. You simply CAN'T bomb Democracy into the people.

5) Greek word for those who are not interested in politics and do not vote was "idiotes" meaning "idiot".

6) USA is not a Democratic country. I don't know how would You call a system where clueless tax-payers have no say where their money goes to and what for, but it sure isn'e Democracy...

7) After this posting this comment I will never ever be granted USA visa. Fortunately, I would never ask for one....

8) If a slogan for entering Serbia would be the same as American one: "Love it or leave it", Serbia would be pronounced for nazi country.
Dejan Bizinger Dejan Bizinger 22:31 23.09.2007

Re: Da je bilo sreće...

I believe that Rosemary was talking about the ordinary American people and the politics is usually always quite different thing.

Speaking about the visa procedure for USA, although I have never been in USA, yet (but I really want, especially to NYC, Boston, Miami and California) from those who applied for the visa it is much easier to get a visa than to get a Shengen visa.
Armitage Armitage 07:56 24.09.2007

Re: Da je bilo sreće...

Dejan Bizinger
I believe that Rosemary was talking about the ordinary American people and the politics is usually always quite different thing.

So was I. In Democracy, as they like to refer to themselves, there should be a minimal gap between those two. In this case, gap is Grand Canyon big. Therefore, it's not Democracy.
Look at it this way. If Rosemary is law-obeying citizen, she pays taxes. Money from her taxes goes to bombing of Serbia and war in Iraq. Rosemary is funding the war(s), and she still has the nerve to declare "They (Americans) would be completely shocked to learn America-prompted NATO forces bombed Serbia, and would have no idea when or why it happened."

Dejan Bizinger
Speaking about the visa procedure for USA, although I have never been in USA, yet, from those who applied for the visa it is much easier to get a visa than to get a Shengen visa.

And when entering the country you have to leave your fingerprints and photo, all digitally taken by the immigration officer. You have been warned.

P.S. Have you seen the USA visa application form? There is a question like: are you or have you ever been a member of a terrorist organization. If yes, what organization.
jankovicf jankovicf 15:26 25.09.2007

Re: Da je bilo sreće...

My personall reason of not coming to USA is humiliating visa procedure


well US citizens also need vise for coming to Serbia, and so do Dutch people and many people from other countries
oldtajmer oldtajmer 19:33 25.09.2007

Re: Da je bilo sreće...

P.S. Have you seen the USA visa application form? There is a question like: are you or have you ever been a member of a terrorist organization. If yes, what organization.


There is also the question: "are you or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?", which was a problem for a lot of citizens of ex-SFRJ in the past.

If you apply for a Canadian visa, and are a Serb male of military age, you will be asked all sorts of questions about your military service, which unit you were stationed in, what your "nickname" was, who were your commanding officers, etc. This supposedly to screen for war crimes suspects.

While I agree all this is humiliating and dehumanizing, in a way it's our own fault. We are the ones who chose (a majority in Serbia *did* elect Milosevic) to be on the wrong side of World Public Opinion. Like it or not, countries do have a right to institute any kind of Visa procedure they choose for people crossing their borders.
Tresko Tresko 11:27 28.09.2007

Re: Da je bilo sreće...

jankovicf
My personall reason of not coming to USA is humiliating visa procedurewell US citizens also need vise for coming to Serbia, and so do Dutch people and many people from other countries

I think you should take your head out of TV(or some other place not to mention): US citizens DO NOT need visa to enter Serbia, neither Dutch people, or Canadian........................................
vucko vucko 22:28 23.09.2007

Welcome!

Rosemary, welcome to our Magical Theater. It's great when our portfolio of viewpoints diversifies, especially with benevolent and optimistic people.

Ok, as in the famous Murphy's rule - everybody has a plan how to get rich that won't work (btw based on Željka's comment, I think that she likes you ) - but that's one more great feature of this extraordinary community - we'll enjoy helping each other's pleasure of disillusionment :)

Looking forward to reading more from you.
kuki kuki 00:36 24.09.2007

Ordinary people

I was working (and living) in USA during the war years. Never, never and NEVER had a single bad experience with people or the government. Simply, being practical as Americans are, they were treating ME, not a Serbian, not a war enemy, not a bad boy. Furthermore, colleagues and friends expressed their sympathies with the suffering of the people, of my hometown, real care for my parents and their survival.

War was over and Serbia felt in oblivion. So much that the mentioned percentage of 2% seems accurate. Until recently when Ana, Jelena and Novak brought back the name on the map. I never had heard so nice comments about Serbia and Belgrade from US media. Actually, even from Serbian media, in the time of national uprising, more proud comments hadn't being made.

Btw. google Belgrade and Beograd in US maps.
Slobodan Cagic Slobodan Cagic 09:34 24.09.2007

Re: Ordinary people

kuki
I was working (and living) in USA during the war years. Never, never and NEVER had a single bad experience with people or the government. Simply, being practical as Americans are, they were treating ME, not a Serbian, not a war enemy, not a bad boy. Furthermore, colleagues and friends expressed their sympathies with the suffering of the people, of my hometown, real care for my parents and their survival.War was over and Serbia felt in oblivion. So much that the mentioned percentage of 2% seems accurate. Until recently when Ana, Jelena and Novak brought back the name on the map. I never had heard so nice comments about Serbia and Belgrade from US media. Actually, even from Serbian media, in the time of national uprising, more proud comments hadn't being made.Btw. google Belgrade and Beograd in US maps.


Exactly as you say. I hade also spent some time in USA during the early Ninetees and had no problem at all for being Serbian. It's just another myth that everyone hates the Serbs. On the contrary!
DUNADAN DUNADAN 00:50 24.09.2007

...

When my company in the US hired several Serb-based workers, some refused to come on paid trips to the home office in the US. Others came after much persuading but were terrified when getting off the plane that Americans would be mean to them personally.

maybe those "Serb-based" workers (what is Serb-based?) had reasons of their own, that had nothing to do with persumed fear of Americans. and those who were terrified... first time I hear smt like this. maybe "terrified" is too strong a word. I would be terrified to go to some African country in a middle of civil war, but going to America would maybe make me a bit uneasy only because I can as easily be stopped at the airport and get sent back to Serbia even though I have a visa, just on a whim of someone at customs who didn't like my answers.
+ when ppl here talk on presumed "American hatred towards serbia/serbs" they usually speak of American government. and they never use the word "hatred", rather "dislike".

It's not that Americans are stupid or ill-educated. (More than 40% of us have college educations.) It's just that our culture worships business and entertainment far more than politics, so politics are not discussed routinely in the US the way they are in Europe.

that's all very good, I guess living in pretty stable economy (such as USA's) tends to have that effect, but nevertheless, a complete lack of interest in their country's foreign policy strikes me as unusual to say the least. you can't live in a country od such dimensions, power and influence, and not have any inclination of knowing what position your country takes on foreign affairs.

and then comes 9.11. and, being totally oblivious about anything that goes beyond their everyday life, the majority of American ppl is shocked and stunned and bewildered as WHY did it happen to them, such a peace loving nation. I'm not approving 9.11. (I have to emphasize this, lest someone jumps at my throat, as bloggers tend to do that quite a bit) but merely trying to give one example of how average American's disinterest can lead to conflicts on much larger scales.
Shumar Shumar 08:35 24.09.2007

Fellow Americans


According to most of my Serb acquaintances, America as a country hates Serbia. America is a big mean bully, glittering with gold, nuclear weapons, and Hollywood celebrities, that personally hates Serbs and wants to cause problems for them.


Do I hate America? Certainly not.

Have I been frequently embarassed recently to be an half_American? Certainly...

read one, out of many ,opinions:

Why does the rest of the world hate America ?
tnosugar tnosugar 09:24 24.09.2007

I wish you had opened your account here...

with something more original, entertaining, informative or educative than the "I am an American and I come in peace" line.

We could go on and on about the anomalies in both our societies (anyone seen Jesus Camp... or Before the Rain), but I'd like to see some constructive debate and positive thought coming from bloggers writing in English (take at look at Mark Pullen's blogs in the old archive if it's still around).

What really infuriates me sometimes is that seven years after we got rid of large-scale violent conflicts and their proponentshere, the first paragraph on any piece about Serbia and Belgrade, despite all our efforts and achievements during this period, is to call them a worn torn country/city and then go on about the original sports, culutral, entertainment, etc. topic the article is about.

We are not a worn-torn country anymore. We have been in pursuit of happyness, wealth, prosperity and sophistication for the past seven years and most people have managed to remove the sorrows of the past from their minds. Those who have not have either lost someone in the fighting (and the war will always be a part of their lives becasue of that) or find these issues their only means of substinence and, hence, like to keep them in focus in the present.

I hope that we can communicate here more profoundly than at the level of blaming each other for the wrong deeds of the past. Reconcilliation comes when the wrongs of the past are forgiven AND forgotten.
silicuda silicuda 09:28 24.09.2007

Re: I wish you had opened your account here...

tnosugar
with something more original, entertaining, informative or educative than the "I am an American and I come with peace" line. We could go on and on about the anomalies in both our societies (anyone seen Jesus Camp... or Before the Rain), but I'd like to see some constructive debate and positive thought coming from bloggers writing in English (take at look at Mark Pullen's blogs in the old archive if it's still around).What really infuriates me sometimes is that seven years after we got rid of large-scale violent conflicts and their proponentshere, the first paragraph on any piece about Serbia and Belgrade, despite all our efforts and achievements during this period, is to call them a worn torn country/city and then go on about the original sports, culutral, entertainment, etc. topic the article is about.We are not a worn-torn country anymore. We have been in pursuit of happyness, wealth, prosperity and sophistication for the past seven years and most people have managed to remove the sorrows of the past from their minds. Those who have not have either lost someone in the fighting (and the war will always be a part of their lives becasue of that) or find these issues their only means of substinence and, hence, like to keep them in focus in the present.I hope that we can communicate here more profoundly than at the level of blaming each other for the wrong deeds of the past. Reconcilliation comes when the wrongs of the past are forgiven AND forgotten.


Yes many media in America label Serbia still warn torn, but you might want to ask yourself why?

Answer is very simple, because of the extreme corruption that exists in Serbia today -- until that is fixed they will continue to label it "warn-torn" because by definition warn-torn is a place where corruption exists after post-war.


Nate Nate 00:19 25.09.2007

Re: I wish you had opened your account here...

silicuda
Yes many media in America label Serbia still warn torn, but you might want to ask yourself why?

Answer is very simple, because of the extreme corruption that exists in Serbia today -- until that is fixed they will continue to label it "warn-torn" because by definition warn-torn is a place where corruption exists after post-war.

The term is actually "war-torn".

Considering there are still bombed-out buildings in the heart of Belgrade almost across the street from the US Embassy, it's quite easy (and lazy) for the US media to say that Serbia is still a war-torn country. Having traveled to Serbia the past three summers, I can safely say that it is, indeed, still war-torn. Many scars from the NATO bombing still exist, not because of choice, but simply that most places can't afford to repair or tear them down.

I also agree that due to the huge amount of corruption that still exists within the country it's also easy for the US media to say that Milošević's influence still has firm grasp on the policies and politicians of the country. The fact that I run into Serbs here in Chicago who are still firmly in the camps of Milošević, Karadzić, and Mladić is quite astonishing to me. Then again, the same can be said for those who still support Bush here in the US.

That said, I found Serbia to be one of the most pleasant countries I have ever visited. I am seriously thinking about moving there in the future, just for the sheer potential that is there when the world finally realizes what a gem it is.
silicuda silicuda 09:25 24.09.2007

Serbia? Did you mean siberia??

Serbia? Did you mean Siberia??

FACT: 99% of americans/canadians do not know where serbia is or what serbia is.

When I go and visit grandparents in SRBIJA (ZIVELI!!!) and I converse with them via MSN -- friends of mine from Cali or Vancouver(Canada) always ask -- "HOWS EUROPE!!!!!!!!"

You see -- Canadians/Americans refer to all countries in Europe as a whole -- no matter if we're in Serbia, Germany, Austria, or whatever to them it's all just EUROPE.

That is the truth, see the movie EuroTrip

Slobodan Cagic Slobodan Cagic 09:36 24.09.2007

Re: Serbia? Did you mean siberia??

silicuda
Serbia? Did you mean Siberia??FACT: 99% of americans/canadians do not know where serbia is or what serbia is.When I go and visit grandparents in SRBIJA (ZIVELI!!!) and I converse with them via MSN -- friends of mine from Cali or Vancouver(Canada) always ask -- "HOWS EUROPE!!!!!!!!"You see -- Canadians/Americans refer to all countries in Europe as a whole -- no matter if we're in Serbia, Germany, Austria, or whatever to them it's all just EUROPE.That is the truth, see the movie EuroTrip


... and it also suggest another important point: Serbia IS Europe :)
silicuda silicuda 09:42 24.09.2007

Re: Serbia? Did you mean siberia??

Slobodan Cagic

silicudaSerbia? Did you mean Siberia??FACT: 99% of americans/canadians do not know where serbia is or what serbia is.When I go and visit grandparents in SRBIJA (ZIVELI!!!) and I converse with them via MSN -- friends of mine from Cali or Vancouver(Canada) always ask -- "HOWS EUROPE!!!!!!!!"You see -- Canadians/Americans refer to all countries in Europe as a whole -- no matter if we're in Serbia, Germany, Austria, or whatever to them it's all just EUROPE.That is the truth, see the movie EuroTrip ... and it also suggest another important point: Serbia IS Europe :)


You can tell them whatever, they will believe anything --:)
CNN is a very powerful tool to shape the minds of the people hahaha



jankovicf jankovicf 19:58 25.09.2007

Re: Serbia? Did you mean siberia??

silicuda
Serbia? Did you mean Siberia??

FACT: 99% of americans/canadians do not know where serbia is or what serbia is.

When I go and visit grandparents in SRBIJA (ZIVELI!!!) and I converse with them via MSN -- friends of mine from Cali or Vancouver(Canada) always ask -- "HOWS EUROPE!!!!!!!!"

You see -- Canadians/Americans refer to all countries in Europe as a whole -- no matter if we're in Serbia, Germany, Austria, or whatever to them it's all just EUROPE.

That is the truth, see the movie EuroTrip



well it's a good thing that they see Europe in whole. I mean Europe has far better reputation than Serbia itself...
Shumar Shumar 09:40 24.09.2007

Would you like to comment?

vucko vucko 10:37 24.09.2007

Re: Would you like to comment?

I liked Sandra Bullock in "Miss Congeniality":

What is the one most important thing our society needs?
That would be harsher punishment for parole violators, Stan.
And, world peace.
Thank you, Gracie Lou.
And thank you, Stan.


:))
bauer bauer 05:04 25.09.2007

please,

don't hate me because I am beautiful!
s56a s56a 10:23 24.09.2007

Edu

More than 40% of us have college educations.

Less than 10% of Balkan people have that, bre! 85% of Serbs never travelled abroad. Please consider these excuses & keep writing!

Regards from Komiza, Vis, Croatia from Ljubljana, Slovenia resident M. M. Miletić, MSc EE retired

sheridan sheridan 10:29 24.09.2007

Well done Rosemary

A very good text, and a very touchign attempt to offer a hand and explain away the silly hatred.
The only problem with it is that it ignores the fact that xenophobia is not rational. It's probably not even real, in most cases just a case of blaming someone else for personal cowardice and failures. (I am saying "it" because I am hoping that you were aware of this and wrote the text it in spite of it). As expected, the replies turned into a barrage of examples of how stupid and nasty american are (as if we are not talking about almost an entire continent, the other side of a planet, with mixture of peoples not found anywhere else), by ignorant angry morons (who think that they know what a democracy is because they read about athens, or how america works because they watched one episode of "West Wing" and only saw angry executives), or arogant ones (who believe that saying you are not condoning violence just after you explained that people of dozens of different nations who were killed on 9.11. basically deserved it because americans are stupid is ok), none of which actually noticed the lines in your text where you are trying to explain these notions away as an attempt to put it to them that there are other cultures out there, but instead decided that it is the mission of the great people of Serbia to explain to stupid americans what culture is, what knowledge is, what talent is...(all this of course while blatantly ignoring that almost every single scientist, writer, painter etc of serbian origin had to leave it to do anything about their talent, the fact that in 1980 the quoter of their population was iliterate, that they are sitting proud of their achievements while their children are being thought about creationism and lies about the only battle that sort of mattered in the last thousand years, while blissfully unable to point out where ohio is on the map of the world, or what it's capital is...).

A wasted effort it would be Rosemary were it not for the enthusiasm, optimism and the beauty and literacy of the writing itself. Do keep it up, it does lift some spirits, for which I thank you.


Have a nice day!
Sofroniye Sofroniye 13:05 24.09.2007

But some of us

had the opportunity to live and/or are still living in the United States and do not agree with "so peachy" landscapes of USA. USA is a rather vast space so people from Texas, Alabama, Montana, west coast or east coast will not have the same attitude towards many of the things you touch upon in your post.

Yes Americans like visitors, they bring business to America and hard cash. As for immigrants it is not quite straightforward for all the parts of USA so that shouldn't be generalized. I would agree that the chances for an immigrant to succeed and advance in his/her own field are largest in USA than anywhere else in the world. But to paint USA as a warm, welcoming place with a smile on its face is a little bit of a stretch. Simply because I could probably give you numerous examples of both welcoming and not-so-welcoming experiences from all over USA including above listed states and parts of the country.

That being said I understand that it is not the issue of your post, it is just a little bit of well known PR yadda yadda yadda. As one of USA best politicians ever stated...(something like)...it is not good to be too close to USA nor to far away..... I think that superpowers do not obey any rules...they change them as they are pleased and when they need it..so it is the best to stand on the sidelines and just watch proxy wars that will be going on in a very near future...
jinks jinks 13:29 24.09.2007

2%

At most, 2% of Americans know what and where Serbia is. Some of these roughly six million people are in positions of power and have weilded that power wrong or rightly to make Serbs unhappy. Others, like myself, have supported Serbia. Most of the bad bunch get joy from pushing smaller countries around, so you can't take it very personally. Bullies are bullies. That's all.

Does this 2% minority treat remaining 98% the same way it treats Bushmen, Maasai, Zulu, not to mention some European states and nations, or it treats them even worse?
Sepulturero Sepulturero 13:34 24.09.2007

Most of Serbs do agree...


"The fact is, I and many of my expatriot friends (people from other countries who have lived in Serbia) think that Serbia is a very special country. Many of us have moved to Serbia or plan to move to Serbia. We like it here. It's a wonderful place. Too bad more Serbs don't agree with us."

It is only people on this blog, as you can see from some of the comments on your article too, that can find nothing positive about Serbia. That is unfortunately also true for a large part of our so called elite. It is they who mostly have contact with outside world hence the bad image of Serbia.

Fortunately I know quite few foreigners who have the same opinion as you wrote above so there is hope. Excellent article.
semele semele 14:38 24.09.2007

Re: Most of Serbs do agree...

#LinkSepulturero"The fact is, I and many of my expatriot friends (people from other countries who have lived in Serbia) think that Serbia is a very special country. Many of us have moved to Serbia or plan to move to Serbia. We like it here. It's a wonderful place. Too bad more Serbs don't agree with us."It is only people on this blog, as you can see from some of the comments on your article too, that can find nothing positive about Serbia. That is unfortunately also true for a large part of our so called elite. It is they who mostly have contact with outside world hence the bad image of Serbia.Fortunately I know quite few foreigners who have the same opinion as you wrote above so there is hope. Excellent article.



It is great to have normal people on Blog92. It could be that it is the new policy of the owners to change their image. In any Western country the B92Blog would be an obscure fringe "newspaper" of extremists, anarchists, LGBT, depressives, punks, and die hard artists who are focused on spouting anti-Serbian hatred everytime they open their mouths.

Actually the situation can be compared to how post-World War One- Berlin scene is depicted. A group which never recovered from the war. It is not unusual to find comments like "WOW, A TRANSVESTITE (trandza) has appeared on the Big Brother Show, we are finally just like Europe." And this is said without irony. This is the level to which our culture has descended. Curiously, the Western states have more respect for Muslim cultures and they do not try to errode them to such a level.

There are several ways of looking at the phenomenon. The extreme situation created by the wars formed a group who with good intents became associated with the peace movement. But the peace movement was also abused by the opposite side in the war to destabilize the state and society from within. These people stayed аt the barricades, and they are still there. They equate everything Serbian with extreme war-time nationalism. They are a source of depression and confusion for the youth. They have a 24 hour access to the internet and lack nothing themselves -- except love and understanding -- and are prepared to gang up on anyone who has opposite views.

You will find here such abuse of everything Serbian which is quite unimaginable in the US or England. Take a look at the images of the LGBT Blog called "Queeria." These are people who apparently want acceptance and protection in a Serbian society but they are the first to throw stones at people who are passing by. Their greatest enemy is the head of the Orthodox Church, they depict him with the body of Keily Minogue or they dress him as the Roman Pontiff. etc. For them a Serbian politican is by definition corrupt, a Serbian church goer is an extremist, a Serbian folk singer deserves to be spat on, etc. European mainstream artists who support Serbian people, like Kusturica and Handke, are usually "crucified" in the blogosphere.

Us who represent the normal Serbia, I would say the Serbia you find in Sombor, Kragujevac and other towns, and who live in various places around the world temporarily or moving about, are usually banned from making comments. So that is why we welcome foreigners to this site. It gives a chance to express our opinions without being banned. We can handle abuse which usually follows views like this one.

I wish you a great life in Serbia. Serbia is beautiful!
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 15:13 24.09.2007

Re: Most of Serbs do agree...

It could be that it is the new policy of the owners to change their image. In any Western country the B92Blog would be an obscure fringe "newspaper" of extremists, anarchists, LGBT, depressives, punks, and die hard artists

As well as brave patriotic little telletubies who are are audaciously shooting rounds of anti NATO oral ammunition from NATO capitals like London
Najbolje se Srbi bore...
Covek u belom Covek u belom 15:31 24.09.2007

Re: Most of Serbs do agree...

As well as brave NGO little telletubies who are are audaciously shooting rounds of anti Serbian oral ammunition from Serbian capital like Belgrade
Najbolje se urbani bore...
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 15:39 24.09.2007

Re: Most of Serbs do agree...

Covek na belom
As well as brave NGO little telletubies who are are audaciously shooting rounds of anti Serbian oral ammunition from Serbian capital like Belgrade
Najbolje se urbani bore...

A double blank, I'm neither in Belgrade nor in an NGO. I can see there is an epidemic of chilvery at large amnog the patriots in this blog,Well done boys, well done
Covek u belom Covek u belom 16:14 24.09.2007

Re: Most of Serbs do agree...

adam weisphaut
Covek na belom
As well as brave NGO little teletubbiES ...
A double blank, I'm neither in Belgrade nor in an NGO. I can see there is an epidemic of chilvery at large amnog the patriots in this blog,Well done boys, well done
Why being so self centered (besides completely missing the point as usual), replying your post, doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be the central figure of a reply. And a second part sounds so hollow, you are again consoling yourself, aren't you?
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 16:26 24.09.2007

Re: Most of Serbs do agree...

Why being so self centered, replying your post, doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be the central figure of a reply. And a second part sounds so hollow, you are again consoling yourself, aren't you?

Oh you weren't aiming at me! Why aren't you a dear The second part sond sounded so hollow, you just felt impelled to resonate the hollowness of it with the thud of your profoundest thoughts
Covek u belom Covek u belom 16:40 24.09.2007

Re: Most of Serbs do agree...

adam weisphaut
The second part sond sounded so hollow, you just felt impelled to resonate the hollowness of it with the thud of your profoundest thoughts
Every day in every way your are improving yourself. ((c) Dino) This time is even hollower. I bet, next time you'll make a vacuum as pure as in your head.
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 16:47 24.09.2007

Re: Nomen est omen

Covek na belom
Every day in every way your are improving yourself. ((c) Dino) This time is even hollower. I bet, next time you'll make a vacuum as pure as in your head.


Ah a history of substance abuse can lead to a delicate perception of the world
vucko vucko 18:56 24.09.2007

Aleksa Žunjić, sreski špijun

It is only people on this blog, as you can see from some of the comments on your article too, that can find nothing positive about Serbia. That is unfortunately also true for a large part of our so called elite. It is they who mostly have contact with outside world hence the bad image of Serbia.

Us who represent the normal Serbia, I would say the Serbia you find in Sombor, Kragujevac and other towns, and who live in various places around the world temporarily or moving about, are usually banned from making comments.

As well as brave patriotic little telletubies who are are audaciously shooting rounds of anti NATO oral ammunition from NATO capitals like London

As well as brave NGO little telletubies who are are audaciously shooting rounds of anti Serbian oral ammunition from Serbian capital like Belgrade

Rosemary, don't forget your party hat when meeting representatives of the two kingdoms (Lilliput and Blefuscu), here on the blog :)
Nate Nate 00:04 25.09.2007

Re: Most of Serbs do agree...

Wow, semele. You seem to have a problem with gays, seeing as how you mentioned them 4-5 times.

Are you afraid you're going to get a drive-by dick-sucking? Seriously, gays probably don't want to have anything to do with as much as you don't want to have anything to do with them. It would be amazing if Serbs would get over the whole gay thing.
DejanOz DejanOz 07:02 25.09.2007

Re: Most of Serbs do agree...

SepultureroIt: is only people on this blog, as you can see from some of the comments on your article too, that can find nothing positive about Serbia. That is unfortunately also true for a large part of our so called elite. It is they who mostly have contact with outside world hence the bad image of Serbia.Fortunately I know quite few foreigners who have the same opinion as you wrote above so there is hope. Excellent article.


Well, it's kind of easy for the foreigners with nicely filled bank accounts and superannuation funds back home to feel good about that exotic home of rakija & gucha... Myself, I am frequently disgusted by the level of Serbophobia and the sheer hatred of anything Serbian that comes out of these pages. But we shouldn't be confusing the manipulative members of a certain party programmed to diss anything that comes from Serbian officialdom, with ordinary folks who are finding it very hard to see a brighter future for themselves in that country, and are still cueing in front of western embassies with a hope of having a crack at achieving a bit of that rotten western decadence for themselves.
gagonja gagonja 23:40 24.09.2007

very true

i just have one thing to comment:
the matter of knowing where serbia is shouldnt be in domain of politics, rather geography.
so i agree and often admire the fact that Americans do not often (or at all) talk about politics but dislike the fact that they have pretty bad general education. its the matter of what culture worships or its not?
it is the matter of different set of values that in large part defines one culture.
So in our education system we have ephasis on history, geography biology math chemistry physics.
probably in this order which is not necessary the best thing. but my own impression is that college educated people in europe and ones in united states differ in "the amount of general knowledge" and how much they value general knowledge.
while some would say that europeans tend to put great importance on being generally informed americans tend to put far greater importance on expertise which maybe explains why there is a great amount of ignorance in some things that are very important to us serbians and other europeans. america is one very competitive environment where people seek expertise to give them competitive edge and bring them better life. all that focus leave not much space and time to quarell about politics over a bottle of homemade plum brandy.
on the other hand there is a tendency to devalue some those things of crucial importance to europeans.
i personally think that people should know some history and geography maybe cause i value them a lot but i also think that people should know some basic economic principles where americans are by far better informed than europeans. (so next time when we all sit and discuss politics over a barrel of brandy we can introduce economic concepts since they are as important political factors as history, geography....)

gagonja gagonja 23:48 24.09.2007

Rosemary

of course,
i agree with you 100% on everything you said.
Americans say "have a nice day" with big fat smile, americans always say "bless you" when you sneeze, americans smile at you when you look at them....
and americans probably are one of the most hospitable nations in the world.
there is almost no xenophobia in US since US is the country of immigrants.
but both serbia and us got a pretty bad image outside its borders, and both are doing, sad to say, very poorly on improving that image.
sad but true
dunjica dunjica 13:37 25.09.2007

Same experience

When I married my Serb husband, none of his family and friends from Serbia came to the wedding in the US even when we offered to pay for all travel. People from many other countries, however, happily accepted.


I had the same expereince, except that my husband is German and I am Croat. So none of our neither Cro/Serb/Bosnian friends came inspite of the offer that their travelling costs will be payed. I feel sometimes upset and angry at the same time for that.
Atomski mrav Atomski mrav 14:21 25.09.2007

Re: Same experience

Do you know why they didn't come? I mean, did they say that they didn't have the visa for Germany, or that they didn't have the time or... there was something else involved?
dunjica dunjica 14:27 25.09.2007

Re: Same experience

Most of them didn´t need visa then. They who needed it, didn´t want us to help with the visa. My only explanation is - they were too proud to accept help.

As usually, only one who is well off anyway, would have accepted our financial help. But she came and payed her travelling costs herself. We agreed to use money for something else.
Atomski mrav Atomski mrav 07:46 26.09.2007

Re: Same experience

So they were actually embarrassed to accept your financial help... OK, I can understand that but I think they should have considered your (and your husband's) feelings. At the bottom line, you made a very nice gesture and maybe they should "swallow their pride" for this occasion... I'm sure they would have had good time, and a lot of great memories from this wedding... this way, they don't even have a picture of them together with the bride and the groom :(
dunjica dunjica 09:28 26.09.2007

Re: Same experience

You´re right, they´ve missed a lot since we have had the funniest and most enjoyable wedding I´ve ever been to ;-)) (our guests said the same)

Fortunately we stay friends, inspite of the pride.
vucko vucko 09:41 26.09.2007

Re: Same experience

You´re right, they´ve missed a lot since we have had the funniest and most enjoyable wedding I´ve ever been to ;-)) (our guests said the same)

Could their absence be the reason? :)
dunjica dunjica 12:41 26.09.2007

Re: Same experience

Hehehehe, Vucko... and: nononono ;-)

Maybe the absence of some family members was a reason for good mood, but with the friends... would have been even better if they were there, I assume (because you choose your friends yourself and the family is simply given to you).
jankovicf jankovicf 14:31 25.09.2007

what's so weird?

At most, 2% of Americans know what and where Serbia is.

Well of course the majority of Americans don't know where Serbia is. Why should they? Do you know where Uzbekistan or Trinidad and Tobacco is?
adam weisphaut adam weisphaut 14:52 25.09.2007

Re: what's so weird?

Trinidad and Tobacco

I gather you are trying to quit smoking and this was your subconscious slip
jankovicf jankovicf 14:58 25.09.2007

Re: what's so weird?

I told you I know nothing about that country. And I'm not American.
silicuda silicuda 09:53 26.09.2007

Re: what's so weird?

jankovicf
At most, 2% of Americans know what and where Serbia is.Well of course the majority of Americans don't know where Serbia is. Why should they? Do you know where Uzbekistan or Trinidad and Tobacco is?


It's Trinidad and Tobago not tobacco....

and yes many americans know where trinidad & tobago is because trinidad & tobago understand the benefits of promoting their country to potential tourists

jankovicf jankovicf 14:57 25.09.2007

Great post

I really like your post. Too bad that the majority of people who should read it won't be able to because it's in English. So it would be a good idea to translate it and publish in some papers ...
Anyway, I completely agree with you. I know all of these is the truth because I have recently been to United States. To New York City precisely. Most of people in US (but not only in US but worldwide) don't know where is Serbia and even what Serbia actually is and that's OK. Some of them will know (vaguely) where you are from if you say Yugoslavia, but most of them will still have no idea. But I personally don't get offended by such things. For instance, if someone from Zimbabwe (or some other country that I've barely heard of) told me where he was from I would act the same.
Also most of them don't even know that their army bombed us. They have better things to do than think about where Serbia is or what's going on in world's politics or even US politics.
America is a beautiful country (as far as I know it). Especially NYC. It's a great urban city whit interesting stuff for everyone. I think that anyone that has the opportunity to go and visit America should definitely not miss the opportunity... It's a great experience for everyone...
Nikola Petrovic Nikola Petrovic 20:08 29.09.2007

True..

Valid post. I'm a student, and I've spent last two summers in the U.S. and I can say that the post reflects the actual relationship Americans have with other countries, especially the small ones.. I was on the Work & Travel program (worked in a candy shop), and I've met all kinds of people. In general, they like to meet foreigners and hear their stories, like where we are from, and what are we doing in the States, do we like it and so and so... and do you know what happens when I say that I'm from Serbia? Most of the answers are: "Oh, it must be very cold there..." or " Where is that ?" or " Really? ..hm, nice..." So, besides mixing us up with people from Russian Siberia, most of them have no clue about Serbia's location and/or existence. Rosemary explained this phenomenon very well.
By the way, the Americans' knowledge about our country is improving rapidly in past few years. I especially like the fact that sooo many Americans recognize our country due to the Novak Djokovic's success in tennis, and whatever the other sport results of our people. "Oh you're from Serbia, your guy won Federer the other day, what was his name, Novo, Nov....." ...there's time, they'll learn the name...

Arhiva

   

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