Arming Burma vs B92 citizen power

Alo naczi ne zamajavaj čoveka sa svojom malograđanštinom.

never forget (8.8.88.) august 8, 1988, mr. griffiths. seriba is totaly and completely insignificant in southeast asia. your blog would do much more good if it was directed to chinese and indian public.

Well, Dr Wu, there are guys - good capitalists! - that work on both sides of the fence.
Ladies and gentlemen, meet
Viktor Anatolyevich Bout , 40 years old, one of the most successful venture capitalists on the planet. He does not discriminate - if you need arms, and have the money, he'll listen to you, and deliver. If there are two sides in the conflict he'll supply arms to both. If there are three sides - hey, even better! Rad all about it!
I believe that one of his transport planes carrying "the goods" crashed near Belgrade some years ago.
It's the free market, baby, give them what they want! And he hates to travel empty. He delivers arms to Congo and goes home with the planeload of frozen chicken. Congolese need bombs, Russians need chicken. Atta boy!

and it is. Has something to do with the angle of refraction :)

like Chuck Norris. You don't sleep, you wait.

No, YOU wait, Chuck sells guns

You see doctor, everybody should believe in something. I believe I should have a drink. Now excuse me, I have a Yangon plane to catch.

Ciao,
C.N.

Domazet

...Dear Hugh,I’m afraid that your quest for the empathy towards the Burmese popular protests here at B92 blog is, if I may say so, misguided. The protests in Burma were organized and are led , as far as I know, by Buddhist priests. And the vast majority of the bloggers here are for the strictest separation of Church and Politics…

...можда имају више утицаја на мађарске, хрватске и црногорске владе?

Domazet

...the arms to Burma does not make those Noras look more appropriate. But I actually wanted to comment on something entirely different.

Dear Hugh,

I’m afraid that your quest for the empathy towards the Burmese popular protests here at B92 blog is, if I may say so, misguided. The protests in Burma were organized and are led , as far as I know, by Buddhist priests. And the vast majority of the bloggers here are for the strictest separation of Church and Politics…

So typical of Domazet, he's fishing for any inconsistencies of b92 bloggers, but does not mind his government, or his former government to be precise, selling arms to a dictatorial regime killing its subjects. However one cannot but admire
his consistency.

Dear Domazet,

I am afraid that is not true. Protests are largely organized by Buddhists yes, but they have a strong support among common people.

Reasons for starting them are very "earthly" with no religious background whatsoever. 500% gasoline price increase and 11 year house arrest of the main opposition leader and the Nobel laureate Aung San Suu Kyi who led 1988 democracy uprising are good enough reason to start anti government protests against repressing regime.

What many people don't know is that 1988 violence escalated from a small fight in local tea-shop to 2 months protests that finished with overthrowing Burma's Socialist Program Party by general Saw Maung and the result was 3000 dead demonstrators and chaos on a streets of Yangon. AS you can see, comparing to this numbers Tienanmen was Disneyland.

Now, what you will see on a picture below is just a small in view in what happened over there. All the people massacred during the protests were killed by guns and riffles, NOT by Serbian 20 year old rusty G4 airplane or big caliber weapons of Yugoslav origin. All the guns were made, licensed or sold by the same countries who are now permanent members of Security Council and yes, those are USA, Russia and the UK in a first place.

Nora B guns and other peaces of heavy artillery have nothing to do with the civil protests and current junta activity since the real killers in every urban guerrilla clash are good old small caliber guns kindly supplied by the ones who are now crying over the destiny of the innocent people, trying to find a patsy for their distorted politics of hypocrisy.

..in my post. Instead of the admiration, I mean...

Also I would suggest attempt to comment on Nemanja's post as an exercise in letting some of those little inconsistencies (of B92 bloggers) go...

Domazet

..in my post. Instead of the admiration, I mean...

Also I would suggest attempt to comment on Nemanja's post as an exercise in letting some of those little inconsistencies (of B92 bloggers) go...

Well I've read it a and although you say you are not going to resort to relativism that's exactly what you do by disparaging the protests as clerical.
I wouldn't dream of accusing Israel since they are the main supplier of handguns for the Burmese army, after the recent allegations made at my expense by your highly esteemed self The American weapons which are listed in Nemanja K.'s post are of older date and would've been most likely supplied before the junta.

The American weapons which are listed in Nemanja K.'s post are of older date and would've been most likely supplied before the junta.

вау!

I was disapproving the protests as clerical!? Disapproving them at all? Don’t play stupid, with your first response you proved that you very well understood why I mentioned those Buddhist monks.

And after this

Adam

...I wouldn't dream of accusing Israel since they are the main supplier of handguns for the Burmese army, after the recent allegations made at my expense by your highly esteemed self The American weapons which are listed in Nemanja K.'s post are of older date and would've been most likely supplied before the junta.

you dare to mention relativism? BTW, how come you didn’t think that Israeli guns might be of even older date. The roots of your anti-Semitism are really deep…

All in all, Lilit is absolutely right, your diligence is remarkable. Almost as is the lack of the intellectual integrity…

Domazet

I was disapproving the protests as clerical!? Disapproving them at all? Don’t play stupid, with your first response you proved that you very well understood why I mentioned those Buddhist monks.

But I'm not the only to have understood it so, for

Nemanja K.

I am afraid that is not true. Protests are largely organized by Buddhists yes, but they have a strong support among common people.

Reasons for starting them are very "earthly" with no religious background whatsoever.

Now you can hardly accuse Nemanja K. of being my ideological peer.
and since you yourself say:

And the vast majority of the bloggers here are for the strictest separation of Church and Politics…

you know that the people you are writing for are anticlerical and admit it yourself. Yet you stress that protests are led by Buddhist monks, and even point out that this is an interference of church in politics. Thus you are knowingly denouncing the protests in the eyes of your audience.
As for

BTW, how come you didn’t think that Israeli guns might be of even older date. The roots of your anti-Semitism are really deep…

well let's look to Nemanaj K.'s first post:

Many soldiers, mainly officers and NCO, still carried 0.30 calibre M1 and M2 carbines provided by the US in the 1950s under the Military Assistance Programme (MAP). These world war two vintage carbines are ideal for jungle warfare.

and

From the beginning of 2002, 7.62 mm BA series rifles have been gradually replaced by 5.56 mm MA series automatic assault rifles in Myanmar Army's frontline units. MA series assault rifles are similar to Israeli GALIL rifle and fire 5.56 mm NATO rounds.

Had you but bothered to read the post carefully you would have seen the answer lay within the text. I effortlessly rest my case

edit: look at Nemanja K.'s first post.

The American weapons which are listed in Nemanja K.'s post are of older date and would've been most likely supplied before the junta.

Dear Adam,

Unfortunately you are wrong. Junta came to power in 1962. American arms trade continued on regular basis up to 1993, that is, 31 years after coup and 6 years after the bloody massacre of the civilians and permanent violation of human and citizen rights.

This running deals together with the confiscation of arms from powerful privately run narco-cartel armies that are running Burma’s North (famous Golden Triangle), helped junta to obtain needed strength and keep up the pace with the neighbors in terms of arms.

It would be nice that story finishes here, but it doesn’t. Since the situation with self-imposed embargo created problems for arm manufacturers, couples of ways were found to avoid these inconveniences.

- local production based on license agreements,
- using a third party dealers and drug trafficking lords,
- using a brisk contracts between Burma and other countries (India and China in a first place) that simply doesn’t give a s**t about “who’s gonna do what with our goodies” philosophy.

Indeed report made by Arms without Borders and Amnesty International groups claim that emerging arm trafficking countries like Brazil, China, Israel and India “have varying export controls which do not always include explicit criteria... for authorizing arms transfers". Report also notices: “Military essentials such as engines and electronics often do not appear on exporters' lists of sensitive technologies”.

Let me clarify the later statement in the light of the current events. At the moment, India motivated by it’s own safety reasons, is selling to Burmese government a ALH (Advanced Light Helicopter) manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. Development of this model was a successful project cooperation between India and European Union’s Eurocopter Group during the late 80’s and early 90’s. Later is officially yielding an arms embargo against Burma since 1996.

One might ask: ‘what that has to do with the current situation? Partnership is over, helicopters were build, right”? That is the catch. No it is not. Though built in India, much of the helicopter’s technology is of foreign origin, including vital systems like the engine, rotor blades, hydraulics, electronics, optics and guns. The “Amnesty International” report states that "at least 29 companies in nine countries across four continents have been involved with the development, licensed production, or supply of components or munitions for the ALH". Ten of these companies are based in 6 European Union states.



It goes without saying that there is no legally-binding requirement to give an undertaking not to re-export the weapons or technology being supplied, so no matter how mad and desperate European, Israeli and US parliamentarians might be, cash still flows into their pockets thanks to the legal loophole. Question is simply, if they feel tremendous guilt and have moral problems with their “babies” reaching a bloodsucking junta, why they simply just not cancel all arrangements with Indian party and show they are serious about that? After all, that is exactly what they did during 90’s when they Boeing and former McDonnell Douglas canceled all contracts, maintenance hauls and information about airplane updates to Yugoslav Airlines (JAT) civil aviation.

If you think of this as a isolated example you are wrong again. In September 2006, India announced the sale of 105-mm light artillery guns and T-55 former Soviet tanks being phased out by Indian Army. Also in January 2007, Indian government sold to Myanmar British BN-2 Defender Islander maritime surveillance aircrafts and deck-based air-defense guns.

You want more?

In 2003, the Ukraine government and their armored vehicle manufacturer, Kharkiv Morozov Machine Building Design Bureau had signed a contract to supply 1000 BTR-3U armored personnel carriers to Burma over the next 10 years. System is fitted with several weapons systems including a 30mm gun, a 7.62mm coaxial machine gun, a 30mm automatic grenade launcher and an anti-tank guided weapon system. Dispute occurred not because of Ukrainian vehicle but because of the fact that vehicles are using German Deutz engines already incriminated by similar affairs with export to China and Croatia.

German government ignored all appeals from human rights organizations and simply interpreted arms embargo loosely. Report from Amnesty International states that Burmese army, have used this military vehicles to capture, detain and enforce conscription of child soldiers.

According to the 2005 reports, the US, Russia, the UK, France and Germany remain the world's top arms exporters, accounting for about 82% of the world market and those digits will not change for a while. At least not decreasing.

I am not defending any arms deal with Myanmar junta, but claiming that Nora-B, old Yugoslav infantry airplane and occasional maintenance personal are burning issue on European squeaky clean skin is simply not true. A weapons that every day adds a taste of bitterness and makes life miserable to thousands of Burmese people is the one that comes from the countries that are claiming to be synonyms of stability and progress in modern civilization not from a small democracy-reaching countries like Serbia.

Weapon business shares the same philosophy as an ecology business: Developed countries first, small ones comes second. When the ship is sinking, you first try to close the big holes, don’t you? If you start patching the small ones first, well…then that just makes you a Hugh Griffiths after all, and I am not prepared to believe in that.

Regards,
Nemanja

Regards,
Nemanja

вау!

уер дид ју леарн то кат анд пејст?
ар ју д њу Адам?

Jane, BBC, India Daily, Washington Post, Amnesty International, Wikipedia, Yomiuri Shimbun, common knowledge.

Thanks for reading anyway
N.

Dear Nemanja, thank you for bringing me up to date with some info about arms manufacturing and trade which you are obviously competently informed about.
However, I would like to point out a few things:
a) as you yourself pointed out in your earlier post the main killers in today's urban warfare are infantry weapons. I was merely noting to Domazet that the American arms which you listed were of an older date(at least it seems so) , and stressed out that the main assault rifle of the Burmese army was of Israeli origin, as well as the majority of its modern equipment on the list.
b) Well the fact that the US supplied he Junta with arms up to 93, does not alter the fact that it eventually stopped the practice. We however have not. Better late than never.
c) The two illustrations you have presented us show the implications of EU companies, and I was talking about US. But nevertheless, these companies and EU governments should be under pressure of their respective publics. Just like ours should be under the pressure of our public till the cessation of all military cooperation with the junta. I hope you agree. Btw. wasn't it that we have recently witnessed that the Serbian government expressed extraordinary care not to export firearms to Georgia and Armenia, in order not possibly jeopardize Russian soldiers in the region. Being the highly moral people they are I'm sure they will exhibit the same kind of care for unarmed Burmese protest ors.
d)

but claiming that Nora-B, old Yugoslav infantry airplane and occasional maintenance personal are burning issue on European squeaky clean skin is simply not true

I'm sure that many of those suppliers of the helicopter parts have argued that their involvement in the chopper production is also not a large contribution to the junta too, and that others are suppling arms to Burma as well. The fact is that that is the rationale of a firing squad: everyone else had live rounds, I had a blank in my barrel.
Regards, Adam

Nemanja_K

Jane, BBC, India Daily, Washington Post, Amnesty International, Wikipedia, Yomiuri Shimbun, common knowledge.Thanks for reading anywayN.

You forgot the most important thing about embargo on arms. It usually serves to secure that only the companies from certain countries can sell arms to the various rogue regimes, without suffering the competition from other countries/smaller and not so important/. Embargo is not obviously valid for all, just for some.

Just a reminder(in support of above said): EU has imposed the embargo on anti-personnel mines. However, Italy, which is a EU member state, is still, today, the biggest manufacturer and seller of anti-personnel land mines in the world.
So, some can not sell arms to no one. On the other hand some can sell arms to anyone who pays(and his sister).
All of this makes the opening speach in this blog, a load of c**p.

Again, don’t play stupid. Nemanja understood my text the way he understood but you proved with your first post that you understood it exactly as intended. Your reversal in understanding came after Nemanja’s text. And your silly logical games, where you try to insinuate that I’m against protests in Burma based on your (very flexible) criteria of what is politically correct, for sure look impressive to Tibor and his bunch but not me.

Now, one could expect that you will try, in your next attempt to masquerade your hypocrisy and ideological blindness, to say that I must think how Nebojsa is stupid because he did not understand what I’ve written. Well, let me tell you, this has nothing to do with the intelligence. I did develop a bit unique approach to communication with the people like you. You did understand my message perfectly because I trained you well. Now, you might find little bit unfair that you are among a few individuals that I think should undergo this ‘training’ of mine. You might even ask ‘Why me, why not Tibor, he is much easier target’? Believe me, it’s not you, it is nothing personal. It’s just that I find very irritable the type of dishonesty that you are practicing around here.

And your silly logical games

Nearly as silly like the ones you have recently used against me

or sure look impressive to Tibor and his bunch but not me.

My heart is simply broken.
.

It’s just that I find very irritable the type of dishonesty that you are practicing around here.

For the majority of people in Serbia for a number of years Milosevic was the symbol of an honest man, then it wsa Seselj, then Kostrunica. It is such a quaint thing, the Serbian definition of honesty.

Dear Adam,

thank you for reply and making some points. Allow me to answer some of your questions. I will try to make them more concise since detailed answers would definitely bring us off-topic.

a) You must understand that Burma is regardless of power that junta has, pretty much disorganized state. Social level of anarchy is also reflecting on state's gun policy therefore Burmese military and police actually doesn't hold any standards in armament choice. Burmese weapon arsenal is a strange mix of guns that date from 20th century 30's, confiscated weapons from inter-cartel wars, guerrilla groups, drug lords, domestically manufactured models and legal and illegal import of arms from most prestigious arms dealers from USA, EU members, Russia, China, India, Singapore and Israel.

If you dig through internet you will find hundreds of photos of Burmese soldiers carrying various weapons depending on their age (12-70), location (north, south or west of the country) or occasion (military parade or combat action). Two most predominant infantry guns in Burma today are locally produced EMERK-1 and EMERK-3 rifles.

EMERK-1 is a "melange" of the Chinese QBZ-97, Singaporean ST-KINETICS SAR-21, Austrian STEYR AUG and the Israeli IMI TAVOR gun, all of them being legally purchased before arms embargo.

EMERK-3 is an illegal upgraded clone of the israeli IMI GALIL asault rifle, manufactured under supervision of Israeli consultants with the use of Israeli and Singaporean machinery and technology shipped to Burma in violation of the embargo.

American arms that entered the country up to '93 is not of an older data as you guessed. It mostly consisted from up to date M-16 assault riffles and AR-15 guns, both sold meanwhile as manufacturing license to Singapore.

b) Answer to your later statement is both YES and NO. It is true that US stopped officially delivering guns to junta but some products such as BA203 (originally American M203 grenade launcher) were found among Burmese soldiers. Like in a previous case, there is a common opinion among Amnesty International, Jane's and Free Burma Coalition observers that machineries to manufacture this launcher were also illegally shipped to Burma from US arm companies most probably over Singapore.

c) Yes I agree that certain pressure should exist. Serbia should stop suppling rogue regimes with dangerous goods, specially if there is a clear UN condemnation of Burmese authorities for the passed events. However:

- Such criticism should be part of domestic pressure and public awareness of people who Serbian government is responsible to, not due the fake concern of the guy who's government is not even dedicated to values of EU, global peace and fight against poverty but their own safety and making a multi million arms contracts in a first place. I hope you realize Adam that while we speak, somewhere on Burmese sky Indian chopper is rolling fully equipped with American and British parts and components, while the main problems turns out to be 2 screws, pump and bumper sticker for an old Yugoslav airplane who is not likely to be used anyway for practical reasons. On the top of all, guy has a nerves to provide us with the e-mails of Serbian prime minister and president (regardless of my personal opinion about both of them) which actually demonstrate his patronizing attitude and mentality of the Empire's emissary among the indigenous natives of some tropical island who never saw a mirror.

- Arms embargo is at the moment not even on top10 list of what Serbia should do to reach EU standards and regulations. Since Serbia is not member of NATO or EU officially doesn't have any obligation towards them to withstand from any contracts of such kind. Same as Ukraine and India. Serbia has obligations towards UN yes, but implying strong connection between European integrations and controversial deals of former Serbian government as a key step in negotiations is simply malicious. I am pretty much sure if any serious pressure on Serbian government would occur that issue would be solved in short period of time just like any other economical or law legislation issue related to the integration process of Serbia. Until then I suggest to Mr. Griffiths to start witting letters to Mr. Brown, Mrs. Merkel and other European leaders and lawmakers for the same reason. As I think of his move as a genuine hypocrisy I would think the same about me writing them e-mails myself directly, since my country also took part in such immoral arrangements.

Regarding arm-deals with Georgia and Armenia, I disagree with you. First of all contracts were approved by Serbian government, second, neither Georgia nor Armenia are rogue states, au contraire, they have quite big arm deals with US and NATO states in general and are fighting for more active rolls in Alliance which is off course pissing off the Russians. Any withdrawal from such deals would make competition more happy as Tresko noticed in one of his posts.

d) Nice comparison you made there, I agree with it but only to a certain extent. Such philosophy puts everybody in a same position and according to it, we are all morally responsible in a same way for what happened over there.

I am simply saying that Serbian airplane and Nora-B units (30 of them and NOT LARGE quantities as Mr. Griffiths said) didn't kill a single protester neither in recent events nor in events from 1988 that were the reason for arms embargo in a first place. American, British, Chinese, Russian, Israeli and Austrian did took lives, many lives and that is the point. Their arm deals are proven as blood money from the day one, so why should my country be the one who should first reconsider it's politics? Even if does it should do it from morally acceptable reasons not just because H.M. spokesman telling us to do so while his government is doing or did exactly the opposite.

One thing I can tell you for sure. If you find yourself in some exclusive night club in Yangoon, Serbian is the language that you will not likely hear anywhere. English, Chinese, Korean, German and French would be the most dominant in terms of "international business" and "good entertainment".

Regards,
Nemanja

adam weisphaut

.
My heart is simply broken..
.

This must be about your anti-Semitism. Seems you don’t like me telling you how would it look like to use on Israel the same criteria you are proposing for Serbia?

Nearly as silly like the ones you have recently used against me.

Well, you are right about that. Trying to impose the criteria that you are using for Serbia on anybody is rather silly.
It would be even sillier to remind you that I simply applied your way of thinking to you to make you look silly. Or to remind you that this is slightly different from your attempt to apply your way of thinking to me to make you look less silly. This whole thing is beyond your comprehension, right?

For the majority of people in Serbia for a number of years Milosevic was the symbol of an honest man, then it wsa Seselj, then Kostrunica. It is such a quaint thing, the Serbian definition of honesty.

I find quite appalling that free thinker and the Individual with capital ‘I‘ like yourself tries to find the excuse for his own lack of moral fiber in the ways of how the Groups think. And what group did you chose as a shield? A Nation!!?? And which among the nations did you choose as the shield? Serbian!!?? I am surprised, Adam WeisHaupt. Didn’t Tibor tell you about his nightmares after he saw:

...najomiljenijeg raspravnog orudja vaskolike tupavosti ushanchene u ono iskonsko 'pa jes' da smo govna, al' ima i gorih od nas'

Amazing citation, don’t you think? It can make your entire self-esteem go down the drain in seconds. And transform proud Opponents of the Regime into adolescent whinies…

If I were really a cynic, I would tell now that Milosevic was the best that happened to some of you. He made you write the excuses for the rest of your lives.

This must be about your anti-Semitism. Seems you don’t like me telling you how would it look like to use on Israel the same criteria you are proposing for Serbia?

The problem of the middle east is one which I would most gladly tell you my opinion of as soon as a topic in which the discussion of would be at all pertinent. Till then let me say that although you may see some similarities, there are a lot of factors which are quite different. Trying to find a universal solution for complex problems is at least silly if not potentially lethal.

Well, you are right about that. Trying to impose the criteria that you are using for Serbia on anybody is rather silly.

Well any set of criteria that is not at least rather flexible is inapplicable when we are talking about human society. Why? Because in order for the criteria to be suitable for human use they must not be rigid, but in fact just like their intended target-flexible. I may be flexible about the tools I use (of course, this doesn't of course mean I would use any), but am steadfast about the goals. Perhaps, this is the chef source of of our misunderstanding, you think in terms of absolutes, and I know they cannot be achieved but go for the second best.

I find quite appalling that free thinker and the Individual with capital ‘I‘ like yourself

To paraphrase Bob Dylan: I am nothing but a trapeze artist
As for the whole:

I find quite appalling that free thinker and the Individual with capital ‘I‘ like yourself tries to find the excuse for his own lack of moral fiber in the ways of how the Groups think. And what group did you chose as a shield? A Nation!!?? And which among the nations did you choose as the shield? Serbian!!?? I am surprised, Adam WeisHaupt.

He he dear Domazet, the fact is that you may have left Serbia years ago, but Serbia still hasn't left you. Your spite
you so abundantly display around the blog is still wired into Serbia and throbs in your heart. Let me tell you how I feel abot her, there is a blogger around here under the name of Stephen Dedalus-I feel about Serbia like the character whose name he took, which I am inifinatly jealous of, feels about Ireland.

Amazing citation, don’t you think?

I could quote Duandan (I even considered putting it as a signature like Henry Chinasky) but choose not to for it doesn't help our discussion at all.Quatations can be used to prove a lot of things, but they offer but a glimmer of insight.

adam weisphaut

I could quote Duandan (I even considered putting it as a signature like Henry Chinasky) but choose not to for it doesn't help our discussion at all.Quatations can be used to prove a lot of things, but they offer but a glimmer of insight.

No, you couldn’t. At least not when talking to me. Because you do not mind the entire Diaspora, you hardly object to, let’ say, Vucko and his writings. And you know that I know that. And that I’d slap you if you try.

The rest of your post is just blabbing.

And to cover your other post, for a flexible person like yourself, you are surprisingly rigid in the interpretation of my associations. This sometimes puts you into the situation to refer to Edward Longshanks as the movie/novel characters. You know what, until recently I would think that this is just you playing stupid to avoid looking (again) silly. But I’m not so sure anymore…

Because you do not mind the entire Diaspora, you hardly object to, let’ say, Vucko and his writings. And you know that I know that. And that I’d slap you if you try.

I haven't noticed an abnormally increased patriotic sentiment in Vucko in order to lay the charges at him, have I. Remember the first part which contains :se bore.

The rest of your post is just blabbing.

Hm and yet when you get that aa an answer to your "sheets" you discard that reaction as intellectual impotency.

dward Longshanks as the movie/novel characters.

Oh I'm sorry if I was imprecise in my use of lexical items, artistic representations of historical characters. Unless you think it is possble to cheer for historical characters ?

Iznenadni,

…towards young Mr. Hugh Griffiths. Something tells me that he is loyal subject of Her Majesty. I would say that age vise he is, figuratively speaking, either Lieutenant or young Captain. And, you know, Union Jack stopped fluttering across the earthly seas only recently, not even seventy years ago. Which is, you must admit, nothing but a blink in the long and proud colonial tradition of the Empire. So you should not be surprised that he, once he had spoken, expected Natives to respond with ‘Yes Massa!’ or ‘Yes Bwana!”. He is the one who must be surprised. Who could believe that some of the nastier Natives actually could link to BBC!? And Adam and Tibor didn’t help at all. They made him believe that nothing changed in last seventy years…
undefined

And Adam and Tibor didn’t help at all. They made him believe that nothing changed in last seventy years…

I find It rather curious that the contemporary Serbian version should live in the US, don't you ?

Adame,

adam weisphaut

And Adam and Tibor didn’t help at all. They made him believe that nothing changed in last seventy years…I find It rather curious that the contemporary Serbian version should live in the US, don't you ?

Why? Wasn’t that the first among the Colonies that stopped saying ‘Yes Massa!’. I found it befitting.

And about this photo of yours, something tells me that you were cheering for Edward Longshanks, weren’t you?

Domazet

Adame,
Why? Wasn’t that the first among the Colonies that stopped saying ‘Yes Massa!’. I found it befitting.

And about this photo of yours, something tells me that you were cheering for Edward Longshanks, weren’t you?

I just used the reference as an example in order to point out that you have a highly romanticized Weltanschaung, nothing more.
I don't cheer for novel or movie characters, as for the movie I was impressed by Tim Roth's portrayal of Archibald Cunningham because he played the ultimate bad guy superbly, and I'm not saying this as his fan only. His part was really the highlight of the movie, only the best of actors can play such a villain

Hadzija, if not my favorite, then one the strangest bloggers I have ever communicated with

2 days ago I was thinking about adding something similar to the whole discussion, however I thought that broadening the topic would be violation of netiquette.

Well, what the hell, here it is and it's more juicy then your pipeline

AFP, 30 September,

Global firms provide lifeline to Myanmar's junta

Despite global outrage over Myanmar's bloody crackdown on dissent, multinational firms are still vying for the country's rich natural resources, throwing an economic lifeline to the military regime.

US energy giant Chevron, French oil group Total and China's top oil producer China National Petroleum Corporation are among companies giving much-needed income to Myanmar, defying activists' calls to pull out.

"All these profits go to the regime. These companies don't care about human rights and what is going on in Yangon," said Debbie Stothard, a coordinator of the Alternative ASEAN Network on Myanmar, a regional pro-democracy body.

Myanmar's junta has been condemned worldwide for launching an offensive against protesters in its main city Yangon, killing at least 13 people, including a Japanese journalist, and jailing hundreds more.

US President George W. Bush last week unveiled new sanctions on the country's ruling generals in a speech to the UN General Assembly.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy also urged his country's businesses, including Total, to freeze their investments in the impoverished Southeast Asian nation, which has been ruled by the military since 1962.

Total has a 31 percent stake in Myanmar's major Yadana project, which would carry gas from fields in the Andaman Sea to power plants in Thailand.

The project is jointly run by the state-run Myanmar Oil and Gas Enterprise, Thailand's top oil exploration firm PTTEP, and US firm Unocal, which has been bought by Chevron. Chevron owns a 28-percent stake in the Yadana fields.

Japan's Nippon Oil Corp., South Korean's Daewoo International, Malaysia's state-run energy firm Petronas, as well as two Indian power giants, Gail India and Oil and Natural Gas Corp., are also jockeying for billion-dollar contracts.

Nippon Oil said there would be no change in its Myanmar operations following the bloody crackdown on demonstrations, which had steadily grown since August 19 following a massive hike in fuel prices for ordinary people.

"We see the political situation and energy business as separate matters," said a company spokesman in Tokyo. He declined to say how much Nippon Oil has invested in Myanmar, formerly known as Burma.

A spokesman for Daewoo, which recently discovered record gas reserves in Myanmar, declined to comment on the clampdown but said: "If South Korea decided to impose sanctions against Myanmar, we would have counterplans for that."

Apart from natural gas, global companies are also seeking Myanmar's teak, forest products, jade, gems, beans and textiles.

"China and Thailand are the major buyers of teak and jade. They just want short-term business interests. They don't care about the lives of Burmese people," said Aung Thu Nyein, a Thai-based Myanmar analyst.

Neighbouring Thailand is the biggest buyer of Myanmar's exports, and Thai firms have also heavily invested in the agriculture and tourism sectors in the military-run country.

Another big neighbour, India, is also flexing its economic muscle. Major state-run infrastructure firm RITES has committed to spending 130 million US dollars to develop a port in Sittwe, 560 kilometres (350 miles) west of Yangon.

Indian telecom firm TCIL and pharmaceutical company Zydus Cadila are among Indian firms operating in Myanmar.

Russia, which has called the crackdown an "internal matter," also announced in May it would help build a nuclear research centre in Myanmar.

Aung Thu Nyein praised Bush's tough measures against the junta and urged the world to follow the lead of the United States, a vocal critic of Myanmar, in an effort to pressure the military government.

"The world must be united in terms of imposing sanctions against Burma. Otherwise, sanctions remain useless against the junta," he said.

The US has imposed sanctions due to Myanmar's human rights abuses, including the detention of 62-year-old pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi, who has spent most of the past 18 years under house arrest in Yangon.

In the wake of Myanmar's crackdown, the US government ordered a freeze on the assets of junta leader General Than Shwe and 13 other senior officials.

Bridget Welsh, an assistant professor at Johns Hopkins University, said that the United States has no strategic or economic interest in Myanmar. The new sanctions are prompted by fundamental ideals, she said.

Though Iran and North Korea are also under U.S. sanctions, they differ from Myanmar in that they pose immediate threats to U.S. security, such as nuclear proliferation and destabilization in the Middle East and East Asia--both areas of vital importance to the United States.

Washington has not denied the possibility of military action against the two countries, and used the possibility of such action to put pressure on them.

The two countries cannot ignore U.S. intentions, because Iran wants to maintain trade relations with Western nations and North Korea wishes to improve ties with the United States.

But Myanmar has no need to rely on the United States, and feels under no military threat from Washington. This leaves the U.S. government with few economic, diplomatic or military tools at its disposal when dealing with the military junta, Welsh said.

Morton Abramowitz, a senior fellow at the Century Foundation and formerly U.S. ambassador to Thailand, said what the United States can do is very limited unless Washington involves China and India.

Hadzija, if not my favorite, then one the strangest bloggers I have ever communicated with

Gee, thanks man. I don't remember we met. :-D

But, Kristina124 is the tops!

You consider the topic of "human rights" separate from all other circumstances? Do you think that having a multiple perspective on the issue of "human rights" is wrong?

Should we all rush like the anglo-saxons who love to have their favourite nations like favourite pets. They have a quirky focus on things which are quite beyond them. This is probably a characteristic left over from the colonial times. Do you know of any Serbs or Burmese who are passionate about "human rights" in Zimbabwe? No. We have our own patches to defend from intrusions and that is it. (I am siplifying because this is a blog after all).

Now along comes Mr. Griffiths (please pronounce that as a butler would) and says YAHOOO ALL, turn you attention to Burma now! If I was a 17 year-old perhaps my attention would be distracted. But since I am not.. Yahoo to him! My attention is on my patch! With no pretensions for any other.