What a Welcome Home

Although I do not intend to defend Serbs, Serbia or anything along these lines, I have to disagree strongly with some of the things mentioned in the text.

Public transportation in London is well-planned, but just that. It is hardly well-run and, depending where in London you live, sometimes just plain awful. However, this is a minor point in the entry.

On the other hand, I have to admire the author who seems to be British/ American/Canadian etc. herself for never encountering such behaviour in the UK, or from British people. I, myself, lived in various places around England (Eton, Cambridge, London) and have visited many more, and my opinion was always that, generaly speaking, British can be much worse when it comes to these things than Serbs. It might be just that I was lucky when I lived in Serbia or that the author of the entry never left protected world of Kensington, St John's Wood, Highgate or some such place. Anyone who has used public transport in London, buses in particular, must have encountered a particular breed of young people (often called chavs)that play their music loudly (and not using headsets). This irritates quite a lot of other travellers, but they are scared to do anything after some of them were shot, stabbed etc. a couple of times for trying to do that. Yob culture in England is extremely strong nowadays and it seems to me that Miss Moore must have been outside the country for quite some time. I did my teaching practice in one of the well-run state schools in London and even what I encountered there I could not have imagined. on the other hand, there are many decent people that know simple rules of behaving in the public. Therefore, I would not rush with a post that can give wrong impression to people about a particular country/ nation.

no matter how much I don't like it,it's the trouth! :(
but that's our mentality, we're passionate people...

i never knew that "angry woman who attempted to stage a futile popular uprising" was a serbian sterotype...man, what else did i miss....

Just keep'em coming, cause you do it in a non-ostentasious, non-pretentious way...

I just hope you will never fly Uzbek Airways from Tashkent to Namangan, where the flight attendant just stood there, looking really confused, when I complained about a stupid passanger who made a MOBILE PHONE CALL while taking off...apparently informing his equally stupid girlfriend about the take off.

way to go BA!

primitives of this world need to come to their senses...and try to find a way to "look cool" or

-strong do what they can, while the weak suffer what they must-

Lucy, you have lived in Belgrade for a few weeks now, does what you saw on the plane conform with the general behaviour of people there?

Does one incident on a plane confirm the 'stereotype' or do series of incidents and events confirm 'stereotypes'?

This is one of the most beautiful articles about the Serbs ever written.
So we are just drunk idiots and hiperactive grandmas?!

This is too good to be true. :)

Are you sure that there were no "genocides" happening in that plane? "Ethnic cleansing" maybe? No? A simple murder?

Geez, even the "big evli Serbs" are just not what they used to be.

:)

And what's that thing about "Welcome Home"? :)

Are you starting to feel like your're "home" here in Belgrade? :)

I know where that is going to lead us:
first you feel like you're home, then you ask yourself silly questions (such as: what kind of Serbian people can afford a plane ticket to UK? To whom do the British give their crappy VISA? Are these people ordinary, honest Serbs, or members of retarded Serbian "elite"?, etc.)
The next thing you know, you are on our side. :)

Be careful honey, we already lost Mark (RIP). We don't want to lose you too. :)

And yes,
welcome home :)

I'm sure you was pretty embarresed there, just being close to such a bad company. But lucky you, at least you didn't learn your manners in Serbia... It is worse for us here! I'm not generalizing things, but we must admit there are swarms of rude people in Serbia. I was humiliated dozens of times, especially abroad, when I saw my fellow countryman acting like cattle! That's why I decided long ago to pretend to be from Mars when I go to another country. And I keep much of a distance from them, it's like a sanctuary when I leave the country, for I can relax from everyday (ours) rudeness in Belgrade.
And again I want to stress - there are SOME rude people here, they are in minority, but nevertheless, they spill so much filth around, that I feel bad every time I'm near them.

I hate to be pedantic, but look at this quote from the original text:

"I generally try to avoid the “this could only happen in Serbia” line of thinking, but these characters on my flight drew on almost every negative Serbian stereotype I’d ever heard..."

That but in her sentence implies that even though she generally tries to avoid saying it, this time it is like that. I just gave an example to show it is not. These things happen elsewhere in the world where there are also rude people. I did not intend to claim that just because people elsewhere do it, it's OK for Serbs to do it, too. If it seemed like that I do apologise.

do you (people) find a polite Brit? Hmm, wonder who this flight attendant was, perhaps she is the precious one example. Someone mentioned the Greek islands in summer. Boy, oh boy, try Spain any time of the year! This past September, I had to evacuate my family from Barcelona, fearing the hords of drunken ...well, were not Serbs, for all I remember.

Amazing the blogger found it appropriate to comment on her fellow passengers' behavior, but failed to say a word about the British Airways embarking 200 people on an obviously technically inadequate airliner. Goddess forbid it happened on a JAT flight, wonder what we would have to endure reading.

EDIT COMMENT: I rest my case at having seen the biography - this is a 22 year old American student writing. Try not to be prejudiced, but 22 years of age do not sound like an enormous wealth of experience, while being reprimended by an American on good/bad manners, is...well, a novelty concept, to say the least.

Dear Lucy,

You're hooked - you feel yourself one of us. Welcome home, let us do some healthy gossip :)

Regards,

Vučko

P.S: Strange things can happen in Austria... or was it Hungary? :)

Dear Lucy, not too much eager to argue with you, just one thing - according to your complains, I have to assume that you haven't lived in Canada (not to mention Australia, God forbid!). Otherwise, you would change your opinion regarding rude people, people with no manners, people who don't shower too often and smell bad, people who yell all the time with no reason, people who treat you like a dirt even though you are a customer - good customer, people who never heard for the words like "thanks", "please", "good morning", people who drive big cars with no basic manners in traffic, people who spit on streets, people who never - ever give you their seats in a public transport, even though YOU ARE 8 - 9 MONTHS PREGNANT...
Actually, the longer I live here, the more I notice that some words are almost non - existing in English language, words like - "please", "thank you" and specially "sorry".
One more thing - there are different parts of Serbia, in some of them you would find people acting as nice as anywhere else in the world.
Regards...

Dear Lucy,

I agree that what you've witnessed on the plane was absolute breach of any acceptable behaviour and I can well understand why you were so appalled. However, I find it a bit daring for you to insinuate, after living in Serbia for just 2 weeks, that this was typical "Serbian" behaviour and it does leave me a bit disappointed. What made you conclude this was typical, that this was a stereotype? I've grown tired of foreigners taking us for granted and taking liberties to decide what we-the Serbs - are like. I could easily reciprocate your remarks by listing a thousand and one situation I witnessed in the States, all of them illustrating less than perfect behaviour of your fellow Americans. But I won't. I don't think that making generalizations like that about the whole nation would get me anywhere. I suggest you might want to do the same and I sincerely hope your stay in Belgrade will prove to be perfect and that you will find many topics more impressive that this one to write about on your blog. Best wishes

Dear Lucy, it seems impossible to me not to think of this song after I saw your post :-).

I understand you, rude people are everywhere and I hate them too. Honestly, it has nothing to do with origin, race, religion, age etc. They are everywhere and they are everyone.

What a person can do against such things?

1. Get along: you could have ordered some whiskey, get drunk, turn arround and say "What's up guys?".

2. Fight them: If you are 1.88 m, 90 kg amateur boxer you look at them and say politely "Could you please be quiet?"

3. Buy IPod and lots of batteries.

4. Stay at home, lock yourself up in the closet and spend the rest of your life alone. You just can't erase them all.

Solutions 1, 2 and 3 work just fine for me. I hope you will find your own. Don't worry, you got time, you're still young enough. Just not enough not to start searching for the soutions though...

Lusy was not trying to say that she agrees that these stereotypes are true, just that on that particular flight there were people who would fit these stereotypes. Thats all.
Plus, I'm not even sure these stereotypes even exist outside the former Yugoslavia.
Do you honestly thing the average westerner knows what a Serbian Stereotype is ? There is to Little of us for anyone to pay attention or even lable us.
All the Serbian stereotypes were made in Serbia. We ourselves identified them and we ourselves propogate them. Lucy didn't learn to 'Serbian Stereotype' from Americans, but from her Serbian friends who countless times said "Only in Serbia."
So stop getting so emotional... Lucy is just another Serb thats bitching about her fellow countrymen acting like idiots.... And I agree with her.
Welcome home lucy.

I will join in and make a few generalisations to add to the ones already aired:
1) This discussion sounds like any number you can hear / read from time to time, for example in some British/French/US/Norwegian/you-name-it newspaper. Only the setting changes, but not the plot. Two responses follow: "Not all XYZ..(etc) are like this only some, but we hate it" or "other groups are just as bad/similar" or "how awful things are getting, how ashamed we feel about it!"
2) You can get the impression that part of the reaction is that some Serbians are fed up with being pushed around, and therefore these ones overreacted.
3) People on this blogsite seem a bit scared of you stopping.
4)Some have tried to use your age against you to put you down. --Well, if you can hear truth out of the mouths of babes and sucklings, then why not out of the mouth of somebody 22 years old.

Good to see you back and blogging Lucy.

but airlines, JAT is the worst flying experience of my life. And on the funny side, last time a guy at the desk at Surcin made a comment about my last name being different "So lady didn't wanna change her last name?".

This is a great article Lucy which shows that not all the stereotypes are entarely fictional and that some can have their roots in real life situations.

I have a friend who visited China recently. He liked it alot but he said that when he set in an airplane that was going to Hong Kong he imediately felt different atmosphere. I couldn't but remeber his story while reading yours.

This kind of a bihaviour is a cultural problem. Anyone who has ever had an oportunity to fly any other company apart from JAT knows what I am talking about. Difference is tremendous.

These stereotypes say a lot about Serbia and it's people and can be a guidance where to act and what to change. Being a part of Europe is not a geographical but a cultural cathegory.

Thanks Lucy, keep posting. It's very interesting to see how Serbia is perceived in the eyes of someone who came here recently.

If I was in Lucy's shoes, I would have been as upset as she was, but I guess, me being a Serb would have allowed me to criticize more freely a bunch of rude, obnoxious and ignorant Serbs.

Just by saying this, I don't think Lucy agreed with every negative Serbian stereotype. If she did, I don't think Lucy would have chosen Belgrade for a place to live.

I try not to be upset when people stereotype Serbs, because we all
sooner or later make the same mistake. We stereotype groups of people we usually know very little about.

Some people we see in a more positive way then they really deserve. An ex lover can make all the difference to how we view his/her nation, positive or negative. Sport makes the difference how we see certain people. At work, boss is usually a miserable bastard, because he wants the work done on time. Outrageous!!!

Average American is probably better then what we think of them most of the time. Hey, I'm just trying to be honest.

***

Dear Lucy,

I wish you a good time in Belgrade. Have fun and make the most of it!

Hi Lucy!

Your entry is hillarious. It reminds me a bit of my experience that occured a couple of years ago en route to Belgrade (from Prague). I've enjoyed my flight until I got into Jat. I was feeling rather tired and a couple of mintues after take off I decided to recline my seat. Well, as soon as I did that the woman behind me rudely retorted with "diz' to sediste!" (lift up your seat!)..ha ha, so I quietly did (maybe her family is in the mafia for all I know?!)..ha ha..jk). No, but I think that most critics here took your observations way too seriously. There's obviously rude people everywhere. And if this had occured on an airplane in the US (for example)...some Serbian (or any foreigner) on the plane might throw a comment, such as, "stupid americans!"... which, of course, is a very immature and redicilous comment to be made. In any case, I enjoy your entries - reading an outsider's perspective on daily life in Belgrade, Serbia. Kudos!

P.S. I hope the airport is fixed a bit. I was always embarrased on how it looked. It's the first thing tourists see when they come to visit a place and it leaves an impression. It hasn't left a good one on me, but I hope it has gotten a face lift.

How can you be sure that your 6 comrades were Serbs.

Dvojica terorista iz jedne bliskoistocne zemlje dosli su u Beograd s namerom da sprovedu "Alahovu kaznu nad srpskim nevernicima". Evo kako je to izgledalo:

Nedelja, 20:47

Stigli su u Beograd. Napustaju aerodrom u Surcinu osam sati posle dolaska, jer su izgubili prtljag. Njihova avio kompanija ne preuzima odgovornost za gubitag prtljaga, a jedan aerodromski sluzbenik predlaze teroristima da dodju sutra, pa uz malo srece, mozda…

Sedaju u taksi. Nabusiti taksista pogledom u retrovizor zakljucuje da su nesumnjivo stranci i vozika ih nocu po gradu sat i po. Kako teroristi ne prigovaraju cak i kada taksimetar dodje do 16.000 dinara, taksista odlucuje da pokupi i svog ortaka na kruznom putu. Odmah su ih opljackali i pretukli, a onda izbacili u blizini Petlovog brda.

Ponedeljak, 10:30

Posto su se osvestili, obojica terorista uspevaju da dodju u hotel, i tamo narucuju rent-a-car. Posle toga se opet upucuju na surcinski aerodrom, ali ostaju blokirani zbog protestnog marsa prosvetara i lekara. Zatim im beogradski taksisti, koji su takodje stupili u strajk, zaprecavaju prolaz.

Ponedeljak, 14:30

Nekako dolaze do Novog Beograda gde u privatnoj menjacnici zamenjuju novac. Umesto dolara, sacuvanih u djonovima cipela, sada u dzepovima imaju falsifikovane novcanice od po 1.000 dinara.

Ponedeljak, 15:45

Dolaze na aerodrom Surcin, cvrsto odlucni da avion skrenu sa rute i sruse ga na Palatu federacije. Piloti i stjuardese JAT-a strajkuju, traze cetvorostruko vece plate. Isti problem imaju i kontrolori leta koji se pridruzuju strajku iz solidarnosti. Jedini raspolozivi avion na pisti je kompanije "Montenegro airlines" sa destinacijom do Niksica, koji u polasku vec kasni 8 sati. Sluzbenici kompanije, zajedno sa putnicima, sede na podu i pevaju hitove sa "Montevizije 2006", povremeno izvikujuci parole u korist referenduma. Dolaze pristalice crnogorske opozicije, i pocinju da dele udarce levo i desno svima, a svoj bes posebno iskaljuju na dvojici Arapa.

Ponedeljak, 19:05

Konacno se malo smiruju strasti i dva sina Alahova, prekriveni krvlju dolaze do pulta "Pink air" kako bi kupili kartu za avion koji ce skrenuti na Palatu federacije. Sluzbenik "Pink air", koji im je prodao karte precutkuje da je let, zapravo, otkazan.

Ponedeljak, 22:07

Sada vec teroristi raspravljaju da li da nastave sa planom ili ne. Vise nisu sigurni da li je unistenje Palate federacije teroristicki cin, ili cin milosrdja!?

Ponedeljak, 23:30

Izgladneli, odlucuju da prezalogaje nesto u aerodromskom restoranu, i narucuju pljeskavice na kajmaku.

Utorak, 08:35

Kajmak je bio pokvaren, pa zavrsavaju u Klinickom centru, posto su celu noc cekali u hodniku Urgentnog centra. Stvar ne bi trajala vise od par dana da se nije pojavila sumnja na salmonelu iz pljeskavice.

Nedelja, 17:20

Posle 12 dana izlaze iz bolnice i nadju se u blizini Partizanovog stadiona. "Partizan" je izgubio, na domacem terenu, od "Crvene zvezde" sa 4:0. Ogorcena grupa "Grobara", videvsi dva tamnija coveka zamenjuju ih za navijace "Cigana" i pocinju da ih gadjaju kamenjem i letvama. Da bi stvar bila gora, sef navijaca "Grobara", seksualno iskoriscava obojicu.

Nedelja, 19:45

Konacno navijaci odlaze, a obojica terorista odlucuju da se napiju prvi put u zivotu (iako je greh!!). Na jednom splavu kod Pristanista, natoce im vestacku lozovacu sa metanolom i ponovo zavrsavaju u Gradskoj bolnici zbog trovanja, a testiranje je pokazalo da su obojica pozitivni na HIV.

Utorak, 23:42

Dvojica terorista, kao slepi putnici, teretnim brodom beze iz Srbije u Rumuniju. Izmoreni trovanjem metanolom i sa gomilom novih infekcija, zaklinju se Alahu da vise nikad nece slicno pokusati.

**Take your place in history and pray you don't repeat it**

Everything you said is the truth. For all those who point in other direction, you are just too weak to face the truth, and untill we face uncomortable truths, we cant change.

Another point,

Most of you that are trying to make excuses would be just as annoyed or more, and would draw similar conclusion, but because it is someone else that is making this observation, you find it necessary to defend.

"Sure Mladic ordered killings of a lot of people, but so did Croats, or Hitler, or Americans..."

So what!!??

We have to look at ourselves if we are to change anything.

I travel a lot by Aeroflot. From Belgrade to Beijing. From Bg to Moscow, I have short flight. Nobody drinks, no body makin troubles. From Moscow to Beijing, there's always some groups (usually Russians or Chinese) that got drunk and makes troubles.
Then, what happened? Stuards where instructed to prevent passangers to got drunk. They stoped to sell to drunk passangers and to isolate drunk ones.

So, it is not about "Bad" Serbs, but with BA stuff atitude. They can force passangers not to drink. They can ban them from BA flights, they can... You got the point.

In Beijing I met lot of Brits. I got impression that Brits like to take no action, just to say: "Look that pigs, how they are drunk", and to have some lordish thoughts about themselves.
I'm trying very hard not to have that stereotype about them, but I can not help myself. I just have.
--
Onaj ko zna nek izracuna broj zveri

if belgrade is your home now, why didn't you do what well intentioned neighbours do and say something to the wanna-be che woman about her behaviour? guests do what you have done - observe, stay invisible and comment afterwards. locals react and try to explain to others why they shouldn't do what they do; they argue and they gossip and they give lessons to their neighbours when needed.

vthessaloniki
i am reading some time now the views of miss moore about serbia and sometimes there are so typical amerikan that somebody has to reply
i am greek leaving now in serbia for 3 years, been in the states for 2 years and noumerus times in england
the most typical example of rudeness are the drunk british and they are drunk always all the time
mrs moore didnot notice this fenomeno during her stay in london?
probably if she was wondering into chaples or museums, as someone else said u must see the british turist during summer holidays where pissing, throwing, sheeting yes sheeting out in the streets is a common fenomeno
for me serbian people in general are polite in a way that foreigners do not expect and that suprise them, because they have the picture of the serb monter that is killing the poor albanians or muslims after years of american organized propaganda, personaly i know the people for more than 20 years now since they were coming for holidays in greece in huge numbers especially before milosevits time
now not to talk about the beautifull usa where suddenly in a big city some gang can beat the heal out of u because u simply look at them -it happened to me persoanaly in new york - or about the unbelievable culture of stupitidy of these people would take us hours
oh pls morans u can find everywhere and if u getting the picture about a country from incitends like that then may be u have the problem

some serbs do behave badly. they always did.
bunch of guys, all along with ready for rebellion woman and start smoking guy are serbian reality in every situation.
recall nusic, steria-popovic, domanovic. don’t you all think these people fit into their comedies?
lucy, your blog is excellent.

Lucy

You are missing the point completely...it is quite simple: the staff of BA, and vicariously BA itself, were negligent and fell well below the standard of care expected of a flight attendants and endangered the passengers' safety on the airplane. The staff was negligent - serving that much alcohol is unacceptable...YOU SHOULD HAVE COMPLAINED to the BA !!!

Instead of arguing that the BA has failed in their duty to ensure safe flight - I find it rather amusing that your whole blog is focused on SERBS ??? and in doing so you are making an over-generalised statement...void of any substance...

Not to mention that your story doesn't even add up...were the passengers drunk towards the end of the flight...at the beginning...or 20 mins into the flight ?? and anyway that fact is not relevatn - it is BA's fault that they have allowed such situation to occur by faling to limit the amount of alcohol served.

NB I guess you never watched a BBC documentary showing how BA pilots quite regularly fly completely drunk and rely on auto-pilot to fly the planes...BA has subsequently sacked a bunch of them but hey it was a common practice a couple of years back

Here is to those that believe this a freak, one-off situation:

I was in a similar situation four years ago, flying Vienna-Belgrade. Although we practically reached Belgrade, due to heavy snow, we were unable to land in Belgrade. There was an “uprising” amongst passengers of a kind that firstly I found funny (in a “welcome-home” sort of a way) but not for too long. There was a group of men that started walking towards the pilots’ cockpit yelling(read: cursing) for the pilot to land. I couldn’t believe that most of these grown(?) men and the odd woman were standing and disputing with the flight attendants! Even thinking of it today, it seems surreal.
It is needless to say how embarrassed I felt in front of the people who were not from our part of the world and in that plane. And above all it was an utterly irresponsible and dangerous behaviour.
I’ll just add: embarrassed because it has represented the worst kind of side of “us” to the non-“us”. And, after these sorts of situations, how can you ever dispute it?!
I wanted to believe it a freak situation too but lucy’s post has confirmed it for me that this kind of behaviour lays much deeper indeed.

And instead of condemning this behaviour there seems plenty of people that have responded to this (on this blog) that actually try to justify it by providing examples of how this happens in other nations too. Even if so, it is not an excuse.

Treba da pocistimo prvo pred svojim pragom…
Jer najlakse je sakriti se iza “nismo mi jedini koji se tako ponasaju”.
Ako to cinimo onda postoji rec koja opisuje takav stav: infantilno.

It is better to face the facts and work on cleaning up the act than to be denying what is obvious like an elephant in the room.

it can’t all be perfect...
Rude, impolite and disrespectful people are everywhere, in every country on the globe.
Nice people are everywhere, in every country on the globe.
Places with all of one or the other do not exist. Everywhere is a total mix.
I know Serbians are stereotyped as rude, and there are many rude people here. But it is also true that Serbians are pretty friendly, polite and helpful...

People all over the world, in my opinion, are today getting more impatient and in the process, ruder too.
I also confronted with rudeness and inconsideration.
A bit less stress would make most people a bit politer.
If everybody slowed down a bit and smiled and helped one another a bit more there’d be a lot less stressed people around too – of which rudeness is a by-product.

I’m sorry, Lucy, that you had to experience this rudeness.

Keep smiling:) that’s Serbian style.

Dont blame passengers, get on BAir azzes, complain to them,ask for a refund, dont fly them, whatever!
BA have no policy in place? and if they do they are not enforcing it?
... *very disturbing* ... EOD!!!

good to have those "sky marshalls", aint Lucy?

rude behaviour is not only a serb specialty, though some tend to be proud of that. and i dunno why...

Under FAR 121.575, no airline may allow a person to board an aircraft if that person appears to be intoxicated. Additionally, no passenger may be served alcoholic beverages on board if they appear to be intoxicated.9 Considering the fact that alcohol’s effects are intensified considerably at 30,000 feet, it is in the interest of flight safety that these regulations be strictly adhered to.

I have no further comment

I totally agree with Lucy on this issue - having travelled from Sydney to Belgrade (the 24 hour killer) 3 times. I have always seem to have sat next to or been near Serbs with such disgusting behaviour. The worst ecperience was in 1995 at Munich airport.

A whole group of Serbs ( some 50) from Chicago (judging by their accents and perfect serbian they emmigrated to the US - most probably refos) proceeded to get drunk whilst waiting for their connecting flight to Belgrade. The kids where going ballistic chasing each other around the terminal - their parents didn't care and just ignored them and continued drinking. The amount of swearing of carrying on was embarrassing so much that I had to move to the other side of the terminal. In the end the secuirty guards asked them to settle down and the serbs began verballing them. Whats worse is that this was a Church School congregation and their priest was with them - he didnt even try to do anything.

What a bunch of charmers. In Australia we have a term we use - Wogs - foreingers with bad attitudes - that they certainly where. It made me feel so ashamed to call myself Serbian because of the behaviour of these people. Unfortunatley we in the dijaspora seems to have gotten the rubbish from the backward villages instead of the good decent types...

Enjoy Belgrade Lucy!!!

Let's play this game "Take one out: stereotype, generalization, prejudice and explain why".

Having lived several years in both US and Britain, to me this post of Ms. Lucy can only once more confirm several of the stereotypes about anglo-saxon culture and attitudes toward other nations that seem to be only too fully justified. The superiority complex, especially that of Americans, though British are far from imune to it, the arrogance, the superficiality, and last but not least utter hypocrisy.

Now, compared to British, Americans are far more superficially polite (with their famous fake "social smiles", superficiality that angers most Europeans, and disgusts most Mediteranian people when they experience inevitable cultural shock), and far worse behaved in general. For instance, college students have no concept of being quiet in a library or computer room, and drinking under age of 21, being illegal, is nevertheless inevitable on every frat party. A kid, not being used to alcohol, died when I arrived to US from heavy drinking on frat party, he was aged seventeen (a lawsuit esued, ending with a several million bargain to satisfy his parents). This is American college student idea of social life, but only when I arrived in Britain I was able to understand why on Earth would alcohol be banned for college students. The amount of habitual beer drinking in Britain is certainly surprising for someone from a country like Serbia - with yelling, acting stupid and all, though in a more sophisticated way than those American kids. For, British students are much more similar to Serbian teenagers than to their American counterparts, certainly much more mature, which is probably a result of American deliberately dumbing high-school system. So, it is not surprising at all that British Airways has a well thought of routine how to deal with such people on planes, issuing "tickets" and all - and the Crown has always dealt harshly with the underclass, that is most of the working class British people. A felony, an anglo-saxon concept, which is any crime which is serious in the slightest degree, as opposed to more trivial misdemeanor (like drunk driving, a very common offence in those countries), used to be punished routinely with severing limbs or hanging - if someone stole something with the right hand - off goes the hand. It is then not at all surprising that punishment in anglo-saxon jurisdictions is uncomparably more harsh than in European countries like Germany, Switzerland or Sweden - with prison sentences of several hundred years in Britain, or death penalty - the love of American people. Lack of compassion - this is especially true in America, as Britain is more socialst in many ways - with homeless people dying on street without anyone paying attention or people being thrown out of hospitals to die for not being able to afford a hospital bill, and a life expectancy almost worse in US than in poverty ridden but socialist Cuba - and for black US people, comparable to that in some African countries - this lack of compassion and ruthlessnes is something typical that one will never see in more poor parts of the world.

Then come the superiority complex, widespread prejudices, American ignorance of other cultures etc.(British are much more wise having ruled an Empire for a while, and of course much more cunning and intelligent in many ways) as briliantly demonstrated by this post of a culturaly shocked American living in Serbia. It seems that Borat got you people right, didn't he. As for the British, they happily invented racism in the last century, supplied it with "learned" rationalizations and theories that came handy to the German Nazis a century later, and proceeded to massacre countles people from India, including widespread policy of cutting off the limbs of Indian workers (they were thiefs, after all), that were, incidently, a competition to British textile industry.

Now, about cursing. In Serbia, and in other neighbouring countries, cursing is not even considered inpolite - it is more a figure of lively speach and it means next to nothing. Moreover, a person who does not curse is considered strange to say the least, just as Russians look at person who does not drink with suspicion. Serbs have a very imaginative and developed cursing vocabulary, and while it will be used differently it is used by people educated or "primitive" alike (and in Serbia, these people all hang together, there were no classes in this country for quite a while - which is rapidly changing now). And this is not at all that much different from what I know about the Americans (remember the Nixon tapes) and how they talk in private. The Serbian people, being more spontaneous, just behave that way most of the time. And calling a culture primitive because of this is all but a cultural racism.

And finally, one thing which Serbs fail to understand about the West, especially the anglo-saxon west. It works by the rules. This is one of the best things about America and Britain - and once a person gets used to it, it is really frustrating not even to go to Serbia, but to other European countries which have a more relaxed attitude. In Serbia, nothing works as it should, and it is no surprise that these people didnt take these tickets seriously. And that they rebelled. For they probably do not know that their grievances can be dealt with if they complained in a proper way - and that there is no NEED for such behaviour. And that they can still file a complaint and will almost certainly get their money or whatever compensation they are entitled to. For, while cynical and opressive, the anglo-saxon system works as a system, and they pay when not doing so will be counterproductive for them. In Serbia, and most of Eastern Europe, you have to fight for every little or trivial thing, and level of corruption - in everything from judicary to health, is greater now than ever before. Such is the price of transition, though there are other reasons for this (and countries less anglo-saxon and more socialist like France and Italy can also be frustrating in this way). And this is why many people have left Serbia - it is not that much poverty or living standards - many people I know had better lives in Serbia than in the West, and some succesfull people return disapointed with Western mentality, hoping the things are changing in Serbia after all - but the utter difficulty to get even the most trivial thing work as they should, that makes people leave. And this is what makes people in Serbia like that - combative, suspicious and defensive. That might look ugly, but when pitted against Western cynicism, I can't help but to be on their side - and not because I'm Serbian. Borat, that caricature of an Eastern European (or whatever), modeled on the stereotypes Ms. Lucy probably shares with her fellow Americans with that typical but superficially hidden sense of self-satisfied arrogance, comes off as a much more loveable character than the americans, frat boys feminists and all. He is stupid, he is prejudiced, he is primitive - you name it - but he is sincere, naive and most importantly, lacks hypocrisy.

Dear Lucy,

Firstly, let me say I thoroughly enjoyed your article.

As a someone who lived for 11 years in London and the last two in Belgrade, I may be able to help illuminate this strange issue of rudeness and anti-social behaviour in a country where people are generally MORE polite and considerate than in the US or UK.

The men on the plane may represent a minority mindset found in most modern societies, that of the Machiavellian personality type.

In the UK they tend to be be found as the common-garden yob (I read they are now collecting ASBOs), the ghetto Bad Boyz, the rural chav and the stockbroker hooligans but of course they are well distributed at every level of society.

Here in Serbia they have the "Balkan Boy" stereotype which typifies this sort of person.

The stereotype is the quasi-Mafioso criminal in a big leather jacket. Often violent, racist, homophobic and xenophobic, they have an inviolable sense of entitlement which holds that the rules do not apply to them.

This attitude is manifested at a low level by queue jumping, traffic violations and other low intensity disregard for civic fairness, politeness or obedience to the rules.

At a higher and more damaging level it manifests itself as endemic corruption, embezzlement, murderous violence and extremist politics.

Thankfully these people are a tiny, detested minority.

Serbs I know are extraordinarily civil and well mannered people. Additionally they are extremely considerate people.

Be careful of falling into the trap of mistaking cultural or language oddities as rudeness.

What appears to be a brusque manner of requesting things at shops or kiosks is the correct, with "Please" implied e.g. "dajte mi".

You could give a Serb a Panadol and not get a thank you because in Serbia, culturally, you do not typically thank people for medicines (that said, people always say thanks).

If you operate here with the presumption that people are well mannered and well intentioned - asking questions when you see what you perceive as rudeness - you will find great reassurance that the vast majority of people here are thoroughly polite and well mannered people.

Kind regards,

Jonathan
Limbicnutrition.com

Lucy, you can find idiots such as the ones you described anywhere in the world if you're unfortunate enough to share the wrong flight with the wrong crowd. Serbian problem is that, for a large number of Serbs, the behavior you described in your post is not percieved as shameful and regrettable; it is rather acceptable, and even expected from a REAL Serb. Just look at how many people were perplexed with Seselj's obscenities that peppered his infamous appearance in the Court in Hague. Pathetic, to say the least.

Whatever happens, whenever it happens, you should bear in mind that you have the right to fight for your
r/f -ight!
If no one understands you - still there's no legal reason not to do it, unless you get the ticket, unless you get caught...
You know, I'm getting pretty sick of stories like this.
Why?
Because I think that this country has other things to export...
... and yet, somehow,this vicious circle keeps coming back...and the voice of sanity remains hidden...
strange...funny...sad...

Sounds just like a flight I was on from New York to Miami a few years ago. However, no Serb bastards to blame! The offending parties were French Canadian.

The way that you are so happy to stereotype Serbs is nothing compared to how you, as an American, will probably be stereotyped in London at the moment. You may also like to write a blog about the great number of ignorant yobs in Britain as well as Serbia, France, the US...

Personally I would prefer to deal with the ignorance of the fools on the plane (which was at least entertaining) than the ignorance of anyone in favour of the attack on Serbia who then wonders why people don't warm to her when she relocates to their country.

I mean, after all, you're a good person, you're against the Iraq war. Puhleeease!!!

When I was in Hungary, on a famous Siget festival, I so a lot of drunk scandinavian people who were just as bad as Serbs. They hang themselves on your neck and start to „baljezgaju” (it is a nice serbian word, explaining a last, very ugly stage of drinking). Meaning: drinking is an INDIVIDUAL thing, and that kind of behavior is based on a person, not a country or nacionality.
P.S. I heard that English people are very ugly when they drink. Japanese also.