My First Slava

Srđane, I think that if any one or more particular, or discrete, religious forms are put aside, for a while, and we look at what remains, or any other, similar, emergent social collective, we would find a lot of collective spirit that has its own uniqueness, strengths and weaknesses.

Collective spirituality, or collective soul, is more than mere sum of individual spiritualities or souls. It is an emergent phenomenon where individuals leverage each other’s feelings and resoluteness in, at first, simple and comprehendible ways but then the complexity takes over, tiny bonds get lost in the sea of common feelings and we simply feel immersed in something much bigger.

It is fascinating how engaged people can get when they find a common purpose and sad how, sometimes, that common purpose, albeit more often abstract and detached than real and "tangible", could be used as a vehicle in pursuit of evil, rather than good. Even more fascinating is the fact that in pursuit of collective evil one would often find predominantly good and reasonable individuals. As if evil in us has even greater power to leverage evil in others.

and the concept of slava where the modern age in its rush hour forgets all about the candle which is, ironically enough, still (traditionally or not) positioned in the middle of the table. (as a constant remainder of our own forgetfulness)

this is probably the reason why I tend to spend slavas near the sink, (although I'm the guest - I don't celebrate, maybe the reasons could be found in the fact that I was baptised one morning with my grandmother by my side as my godfather - just the two of us and a priest) rearranging the dishes and preparing them for the new excursion scheduled in half an hour in a genuine attempt to relieve the hosts of the suppressed, accumulated stress.

as Srdjan put it, "this Serbian thing" doesn't appeal to me at all - and probably that's the reason why, after each slava, I come home starved, and maybe this is a small tribute, through this silent protest (no one seems to recognize as such), to whom the feast is really dedicated...

Хеј, Миста Дејан, а ти због баке ономад каза да си к'о Грк у 'апсу! сада је та твоја изјава обасјана у сасвим новом светлу! симпа ти је та бака. како се звала? ја се једном мал'не ожених једном Софијом из Солуна, уплаших се тада, младо моме бејах, ал' сада каткад жал за Соком ме прожме...

atheism & traditionalism... it is interesting, if we analyze judaism, that in the jewish system of beliefs, traditionalism also took place as a sort of medium in between the lost spirituality of the destroyed old era and of the scattered people, and the nowadays developing secularism. the jews were, basically, only once throughout history, truly atheist: when they embraced socialism in the 18th and 19th centuries. when Internacionala turned its tide and became anti-semitic, jews invented their own ideology, zionism, a sort of faith-lost, tradition-centered atheism with clear political goals. and it brought them back to the lost homeland. strange, isn't it?

sorry, lucy, for this digression.

are more of codes of conducts. sets of rules.
Christianity should be more spiritual. Most of the Serbs do not take it that way.

Inace staramajka mi se zvala Politima, po ocu moskopoljska Cincarka, po majci konstantinopoljska Grkinja – fanariotkinja. Udata za Vranjanca. Mislim da me je ona najjace obelezila, posto se najvise od svih trudila oko mene – ja sam joj bio “slavska sveca” prvo musko unuce od prvog sina. prilicno mitski odnos. umrla je prosle godine.

there is no difference, essentially, in between the attempts of ancient jews to interpret whatever happened to abraham and moses, and those of paul, peter, mohammed and their churches to re-interpret their own experiences. pauline christianity (dominant religion in lucy's motherland) has quite as well became, along the way, code of conducts and rules. the same happened, i assume, to both petrine and johannine (or catholic and orthodox) conceptions, as well as to the mohammedanism.

kakav je to narod Cincari? oklen su oni poreklom? jesu li oni bili starosedeoci, pre nego što su Sloveni sišli na balk. poluostrvo (i pre nego što je Sv. Dimitrije porazio Slovene oko Soluna ;))?

cincari su romanizovani prastanovnici. ostali kao ostrvca u epiru, tesaliji, zapadnoj makedoniji. moskopolje bio veliki centar. jezik najblizi rumunskom. puno ih se odeselilo na sever, prvaci srpske carsije.
nekoliko imena: nisam bas za sva siguran: Nikola Pašić,
Branislav Nušić, Taško Načić, Petre Prličko (ciko, jel sav taj hlebac tvoj), Pitu Guli (digao krusevski ustanak), Konda (otvorio Karadjodrju vrata), Toma Fila, Nikola i Evgenija Kiki (zaduzbinari), Naum Krnar (ubili ga sa karadjordjem na spavanju, alekov direktan predak), Milton Manaki (filmadzija), Lazar Paču (mnistar finansija), Jovan Sterija Popović, Marko T. Leko, Dimitrije Ljotić, Jovan Karamata (zemunski bogatasi), Dimitrije Sina (navodno najbogatiji covek u AU moarhiji)
procitaj pekicevo zlatno runo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanians
ima dosta materijala. ponesto malo improvizovano, ali je OK.

ko je bio Cincar Janko, u toj ulici radim?

je vojvoda (ili knez) iz prvog srpskog ustanka. pominje se u boju na misaru. Elem, cincar janko popović i lazar mutap su gonili turke, pa za njima presli Savu, sustigli ih i pobili, bacili u cavu, pa s evartili u Srbiju.

ulice po centru grada beograda su u velikom broju dobile imena po likovima iz prvog ustanka, mutap, bircanin, konda, ...

И Рига од Фере је био Цинцар, је л' знате?

Поздрав

P.S.
Lucy, sorry for this digression.

... i Srdjan Saper.

sa niskim dvocifrenim % cincarske genetike, kakvi smo ja i saper, ima jako puno.

zasluzujete kazino :)

o kakvim se zaslugama po etnickoj osnovi radi. ja po toj osnovi ne zasluzujem nista.cak ni jezik ne znam. nisam ga nikada ni cuo.

Thanksgiving is not about the Indians who helped the first settlers to survive. It’s about God and religion. People are grateful to God for all goods they receive, for harvest, for save journey to the New World, for being born in country of great opportunities. The Indians are part of modern liberal interpretation but have nothing to do with tradition. The same applies to slava. You may celebrate your slava just because your ancestors, or because everybody is celebrating. But that has nothing to do with real meaning of slava, which is clearly religious. Slava is about patron saint of family.

al ne lici.

ajde bolje to potkrepite. recimo, sta je tu religiozno?
sto nije u bogomolji?

Na šta misliš, slavu ili thanksgiving?

Kada je slava u pitanju, slavski kolač bi po pravilu trebao da se prelomi u crkvi, uz molitve. Ako se lomi kod kuće, onda u prisustvu sveštenika. U nekim krajevima sveštenici dolaze pred slavu da svete vodicu.

Kada je thanksgivig u pitanju, u mnogim američkim domovima se još uvek prvo pomole pre nego što navale na ćurku. Ne zaboravi da 40% stanovništva SAD redovno odlazi na bogosluženja (najmanje jednom mesečno) a dve trećine čita Sveto Pismo više od jednom nedeljno.

obrednog hleba je samo hriscanski momenat.
Ostalo mi sve izgleda kao cista paganerija.
zito: reinkarnacije- mrtvo postaje zivo. preci i potomci.
isto je i uskrsjnje jaje.
badnjak, perun.
Hocu reci, slava bez intervencije crkve ne gubi bas bog zna sta od svoje cari ni iskonskog znacaja. Mislim, nije da se razumem, ali tako mi makar izgleda.

Slava je verovatno uvedena kao zamena za paganske kućne bogove, baš kao što je Božić uveden kao zamena za paganski praznik sunca, koji se slavio istog datuma. To uopšte nije sporno, hrišćanska crkva je paganske proslave menjala i davala im novo značenje.

Međutim, sa druge strane neki običaji i praznici su izgubili hrišćanski smisao radi sekularizacije našeg društva. Npr. kada je slava u pitanju, više autora je pisalo o srpskim vojnicima na Solunskom frontu, koji u rovovima, sa komadićem sveće, proslavljaju svoju slavu. Nije bilo trpeze, ali je bila slava.

Meni je u tom kontekstu vrlo ilustrativan zapis iz putopisa Mary E. Durham "Kroz srpske zemlje", koji je nastao u poslednjim godinama vladavine Obrenovića. Opisujući naše običaje sa iznošenjem hrane na groblje (zadušnice i pomeni), ona vrlo jasno prenosi objašnjenje koje je tada dobila. Ta hrana i piće su se iznosili da se nahrani sirotinja, a ne da bi rodbina pokojnika jela i pila na groblju - ili da bi se ostavilo pokojniku da jede na drugom svetu. Danas se ta hrišćanska nota milosrđa izgubila. (Imao sam prilike da vidim cigančiće koje su terali sa groblja, "da ne kradu hranu".)

Da li su stari Srbi kao pagani iznosili hranu na groblja, ili je taj običaj došao sa hrišćanstvom (iz hrišćanskih agapa, zajedničkih obeda koji su služeni nakon liturgije), teško je reći. Ali je izvesno da je pre stotinjak godina imao puno više hrišćanskog u sebi, nego što ima danas.

zahvaljujem ti se ONOLIKO sto se najzad NEKO nasao da objasni ovom nasem narodu sta je tu sta i sta se zbog cega radi. Ja sam imala srece da imam pretke koji su dobrano bili upuceni u nase lokalne obicaje do tancina-zasto i kada se koji obred izvodi, kakvo je znacenje) a onda kada se to jos ukrsti sa istorijom religije/a dobije se tacan odgovor i ko je sve to smislio i kakva je pozadina. Zao mi je samo sto sve to nisi napisao i na engleskom kako bi te stvari pojasnio i nasoj postavljacici bloga americkog porekla (ma sta to znacilo)

nije slava = gozba.
moz bit i gozba al moze i sam covek sa sobom. no ne mora, mislim ja, da se tom prilikom obraca Bogu gospodu, ako u postojanje istoga bas nije siguran, vec je lagitimno, smatram, i drugo tumacenje, drevnije, prisecanje na pretke nase.

I know that Thanksgiving is not about Indians only, but they are often forgotten in the process of celebration, just like Jesus is with commercialized Christmas.

I had a wonderful time at the slava. And I in no way find the hosts phony. I just found the blend of the religious and secular aspects of both this slava in particular, and slava's a whole from what I know of them, interesting.

Yes and it came across that way as well.

I like this piece, good one. You got (and portrayed) a pretty accurate picture of a Slava in Serbia. Although some of those more religiously inclined might want to think that a typical Slava in Serbia has a host who knows all the traditions and the religious aspect connected with it, that is not the case. Most Slavas are pretty much how you described it - a combination of the modern and traditional.

Whether any ignorance of the host is as a result of many years of Communism or not is open to debate. But it probably isnt a debate that you personally should bother to spend much time examining.

I advise you to attend as many of these relgious days as possible if you get the opportunity (Christmas, Easter et al). Sometimes it is highly amusing to everybody involved when they argue about the way a certain thing is done.

if you are realy interested in slavas try visiting some truly religious family, they would be happy to expain everything, reasons and customs
If you cant find any, you are invited to my slava, St, George in May

The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced. - Frank Zappa

The spin:

"The world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, a military base."
Harry Truman, radio address, August 7, 1945

"The world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima."
full quote, CNN Museum, Washington DC.

A military base?

"We don't necessarily discriminate. We simply exclude certain types of people."
--Colonel Gerald Wellman, ROTC Instrutor.

Social intelligence:

"Your food stamps will be stopped effective
March 1992 because we received notice that you passed away. May God bless you. You may reapply if there is a change in your circumstances."
--Department of Social Services, Greenville, South Carolina

Yes and no. The melting pot, political correctness, and equality before the law are all concepts that in name, but much less in practice, contributed to my understanding of issues of race/ethnicity/nationality as an American.

... far better explained!

If only the Americans could put all those 'bits and pieces' in practice... what a WORLD it would be!

Anyhow, Lucy, enjoy your stay in Serbia.

St. Nicholas is considered to be an alive saint...Celebrated in many countries as the protector of the sailors, in Serbia the 19th of December is during the big pre-Christmas fasting, and is there for "posna" slava. Fasting goes on until the Christmas day. Traditionally on that day we eat fish only, no pigs, gibanicas and so on. Zito, the tastes can vary and some other sweets that don't contain any animal fat.
There are many stories as of why is slava celebrated, but one that I like the most is that during the Turkish occupation, when the men were somewhere fighting, or hiding from the Turks, the remaining family in the village would light a candle and put it in the window as a sign that the Turks are gone so they, the fighters, or anybody, could come home or to that house. This is one of the reasons why the guests should not be invited to slavas, but may come if they want.

Wheat symbolizes fertility, the crop, main resource of survival. Yet it is also served at the funerals, or memorial services at the grave sites, or in church. Eating over the grave is, in my opinion, extremely pagan. Pomegranate symbolizes, in art, resurrection of Christ. Resurrection means starting over, planting new seeds, waiting for a new life, rebirth, rejuvenation, starting over...I would love for my people, nation, countryman to turn over the page and start with something new, never seen, better...Believing in god is OK, but believing that it all depends on us, the mortal ones, is even better. And look at us, we are talking about totally irrelevant subjects to the text above which in my opinion doesn't clarify the intention of the author.

You made a very good point here about the religious meaning of the Slava as a family feast day. However, I am not sure that it is the main meaning of the Slava for most of the latter day Serbs.

One of the results of over forty years of the Communist rule in Yugoslavia is that a vast majority of today's middle aged Serbs did not have any kind of religious upbringing and certainly no first hand experience of celebrating the Slava at their own home with their parents, let alone an experience of the fullness of Christian family life.

Some people of that generation were lucky to have grandparents who continued the tradition, even if it was not more than a family lunch on the patron saint's day and a little gathering of their octogenarian friends.

In the late seventies an innovative variety of the Slava celebration emerged: a big and smart party sometimes lasting into the small hours. It became socially acceptable to celebrate more openly, but a non-negotiable requirement was that it had to be devoid of any true religious content.

Nowadays many middle aged and younger Serbs who eagerly celebrate their Slava, do it for the reason of tradition, rather than religion. However, this is most often not an informed choice they had made, but simply a consequence of the circumstances of their upbringing and education.

After the WW2, comrades took effort to abolish, inhibit and exterminate the Slava, and when they had bad luck at it, they try to desecrate it.

?

Da li sam jedina kojoj smetaju trollovi doticnog/doticne Cesalotore0012??? Pisem urednistvu, domacinima blogova, svuda gdje se pojavljuje ova lista porno-adresa, ali nitko da mu/joj stane na put.

Sta jos ciniti? Da svi zajedno pisemo "prijeve nepristojnog komentara" (vidi Feedback lijevo u meniju) je jedna ideja, mozda tako uspijemo skrenuti paznju moderatora?!

sg će ga ukebaju!
...............
edit
viš kako ide brzo!

Moze li se takvim komentarima zabraniti pristup (namjerno ne rekoh "korisnicima")?

a verujem i da je banovan permanently
mislim da mod. reaguju relativno brzo, a i čekam taj novi softver...

O cemu se radi? Zastita od partibrejkera ;-)?

tako sam negde pročitala, a napisao neki od VIP-ovaca, makar tako sam shvatila
taj novi s. bi trebalo svima da omogući banovanje, tj. svi ćemo zavisiti od ostatka zajednice, pa bi po tome, ukoliko većini smetaš trebalo da budeš odstranjen...sad tu ulazimo u priču šta ako većina nije u pravu, ali nadam se da to u ovom slučaju neće biti tako

bojim se toga. lako dolazi do mobinga.