Fat America, a Deserving Target?

If Americans did just what you are suggesting Europe would have probably been working for Nazi Germany for the last 50 years or so. Also if Americans did what you are suggesting after the WW2 we would still live in komunist regimes far worse that the ones we have had the pleasure of seeing. So stop this b/s criticism of everything and concentrate on the thing that are really wrong and thats where I agree with ms Moore.

Serbs should concentrate on growing up instead of acting like a nation of teenagers all the time.

A bit off topic, but the fact that Europe is not working for Nazi Germany, as you suggest, is not due to American efforts but rather the brave men and women of the Red Army. Remember, had the Japanese not bombed Pearl Harbour Uncle Sam would've continued to watch from a safe distance. Oh, remind me at what point the Americans entered WWI for that matter?

No two events determined the further course of European history as did Operation Barbarossa and the Japanese attack on Hawaii. The two biggest Axis blunders of the war, if you ask me.

I don't know if I agree that the USA would've stood by had Japan not attacked. Eventually Hitler and Stalin would have split Europe, had Barbarossa not taken place, of course. But then again, I don't see how Hitler would have abandoned Drang nach Osten / Lebensraum policy of expanding Germany into the Slavic and Baltic lands of the East. His hatred of the Slavs was superseded only by his hatred of the Jews and Communists.

Stalin would have been content (I think) with splitting up Europe w/ Гитлер, but I am not so sure about Hitler's aspirations beyond Europe. The moment he attempted to invade Britain properly (as opposed to half-assed attempts to Luftwaffe it into submission), the US would've entered the war. Again, though, I don't see the Germans beating the British Royal Navy/RAF-based British defence in a million years, with or without the US propping up London.

Of course, this is all counter-factual history and we can only guess. But if I can sort of be sure of one thing, that is that the US would have never allowed for Britain to fall.

A Conservative Angle
http://degaullist.wordpress.com

1000 words. So, in thousand words:

I agree that the US would've likely entered the European theatre sooner or later. German subs were already entering North American waters like the St. Lawrence seaway. I also don't mean to diminish the US contribution to WWII. They played an important role definitely. But the Red Army felt the brunt of the Nazi war machine, more so than allied troops on the Western front.

is consumerism and ignorance, and don't tell me this comes from China or any other underdeveloped country. Are you suggesting that the developing "sleeping tiger" should voluntarily curb its expansive industralization and growth before it becomes an "insatiable whale"? Whose investments lead to this morbid disregard of environment in Asia and for what purpose? To get things moving, virtually any state must adhere and bow to the 'values' of Washington consensus and neoliberal economic policies, and most of the time this is the only reality transitional economies are facing. Under such circumstances, values are imposed and serve to polarize the society in each nation-state, thus changing the national identity (and in Serbia this is widely reflected with lasting nationalistic sentiment). Who profits? Certainly not the global environment, political activism or a vision of better and fairer world. I don't blame the Americans at all - "pursuing happiness" is embedded in human nature, but there is a price to pay. Solution? Don't dwell on the differencies and search for individual appeasement, don't be a slave to the mainstream, don't point your finger elsewhere - instead, do something that will make a difference.

will not willingly give up their benefits, and their pursuit of happiness if you will.

I guess we should maybe force them Lenin?

before you label people, you may experience some enlightenment.

Like 'Capital' by Carl Marks?

Oh, is that the only one you could remember? Try David Held or Susan George, our contemporaries.

I had a look at the immage attached in your previous post. It shows pictures of springbreakers parying and then another picture of an African child suffering of AIDS.
It seems like a direct call for action by America? Doesnt it? Now once America does act people complain, just as when it doesnt act enough.

It might also help to know that the single biggest contributor to the fight on AIDS is an American Bill Gates. Now joined by another great businessman Warren Buffet, Bill runs the biggest and the most efficient health fund in the world. All private, without meddling of the governments.
Now he has made billions by providing a product that American society, and its free market economy have enabled. This money was created by American consumer economy and is now helping the fight on AIDS.

And I really dont see what students trying to have a good time on their brake from studying have to to with anything. Should we ban fun?

is a mere call for a wider understanding of global problems, attention and compassion to the ones in need, deprived and malnourished. The use of this illustration in the blog is to address the culprits, specifically named - consumerism and ignorance. It is made for local use, at my university.

There is no real difference between the culprits pointed in this image and the behaviour which Serbians have conducted during the siege of Sarajevo and a massacre in Srebrenica. Difference is in the scale and scope of the consequences.

Your arguments are superficial and the question if we should go to another extreme and ban something is insulting. Try making a constructive and viable argument, propose an idea that brings innovation instead of justifying this reality and stigmatizing those who disagree with you. And definitely read David Held.

Banning consumerism? I dont see anything wrong with it in the first place. It is what drives the world economy. Due to American and European consumerism millions of people in Asia have been lifted out of poverty and can now afford things we take for granted.

With ignorance I do, however I am not sure that we can solve that problem here. I am also not sure what ignorance you refer to. If you are saying that people who dont agree with you are ignorant than that is a whole different case. Once you leavfe university and (possibly) get more insight into economic and commercial working of the real world, you might change your viewes slightly, as I am speaking from a personal experience.
One thing is for sure is that you will not solve ignorance by slowing economic growth.

We're moving far from the topic, but it could be entirely my fault.

I am not talking about slowing the economic growth but the distribution of accumulated wealth; the rich becoming richer and the poor becoming poorer. These are not my constructions, these are legitimate and statistically proven social phenomenons of the contemporary world. One must not neglect the historical tendencies of exploitation in which the third world is entrenched for centuries, and the remedy which exists behind current improvements is simply inadequate and insufficient for sustainable betterment of human well-being outside the developed world. How do we justify 12$ billion spent on pet food annualy in North America, while famine claims lives of 16.000 children every single day? Or, think only about the energy consumption, for example. There are two worlds out there and we should think about merging them to better understand our global potentials - no viable policy could improve global environment or shed fat off insatiable bellies if we don't address our way of life and its consequences.

As for my academic career, I chose university education *after* I engaged with years of practical "insight into economic and commercial working of the real world". My personal experience tells me that the "real world" sucks and it can be changed providing that we (humans) all push in the same direction. This change does not require implementation of existing ideologies, especially not those who claim to foster unrealistic and utopian goals, but a common ground for preservation of human dignity and environment must be found.

Change is required. There exist those who are interested to embrace the change within themselves and reflect it through their actions towards the society, and there are others who like it the way it is and fear the change, for they may lose what they have established. I don't blame those who nurture status quo, but they should step aside and make room for improvement. This discussion is a good example - I chose to reward you with respect and credit from the beginning, inspite of our differences, and you replaced stigmas and labels with valid arguments. Tomorrow we may pull in the same direction, as we are probably much more similar than you think. I hope that we assemble our potentials before some natural disaster or a world war forces us to do so.

definitevly agree with the idea of cosmopolitanism and the dissaperance of the nation-states, and certain other aspects of the Held ideas. However, I believe that it is the free market and globalisation, with all its attributes that will bring about cosmopolitanism, rather than the other way around.

The *true free market* and not actual controlled free market, oligopolies and warmongering corporates.

apsolutely agree on the point of nee for a truly free market and a set of (nearly) complete personal freedoms.

now we have taken this argument way too far...

the additional point I am trying to make is that individuals and corporations (as hierarchical groups of individuals acting in the best interest of their shareholders, thus themselves) will not change behavior unless it is in their interest to do so, no matter how many pictures of hungry african children we show. what we can do for africa and the rest of the poor world is enable trade. now that would mean abolishing trade barriers and various subsidies that are so closely guarded by many nations. french being the most extreme case.

but Im not sure we'll solve the world peace here...

Hey, Kume, what are you majoring in? IR? PoliSci?

Cheers

A Conservative Angle
http://degaullist.wordpress.com

Poli Sci concentration in IR.

I'm a PoliSci & History major (minoring in German). Might do my M.A. at Carleton next year if my Univ of Nottingham (or Southampton) plan doesn't work out (read: if I don't come up with ~20,000 quid for tuition & living expenses.)

The British universities offer way more variety.

A Conservative Angle
http://degaullist.wordpress.com

1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.

Oct 21, 2006. Carleton University.

Event announcement:

In this talk David Held will explore one of the greatest paradoxes of our time; that is, that the challenges we face are increasingly global in their form and scope and yet our political capacity to address these challenges is weak and diminishing. Climate change, nuclear proliferation and global poverty are the tip of the iceberg of global problems. Each one of these is serious; together, they constitute a major threat to the continuity of our familiar human arrangements. Could this be our final century? The lecture explores both the advantages globalisation has brought and the serious structural vulnerability it has created. Since the end of the Cold War, optimism has diminished about finding global leaders with global vision. In fact, surveying American and European politics today it is hard to find anyone with the vision and direction to reform global governance arrangements. The issues can be starkly posed as apocalypse soon or reform? The threat of apocalypse is real enough. Can we muster the resources for reform?

Event aftermath:

In this talk David Held has exploited one of the greatest paradoxes of our campus; that is, that the events we attend are increasingly hypocritical in their form and scope and yet our ignorance and fallacy entrenched in this hypocrisy are strong and flourishing. Sucking up to academic authorities, 'free food' proliferation and pretentious mockery are the tip of the iceberg of a corporatized education system. Each one of these is malignant; together they constitute a major threat to the so-called integrity this institution proclaims it instils. Could this be our final utility? The lecture explored both the amount of money we waste on pet food and the median death rate cycle of 30 seconds per malnourished African child. Since the introduction of The Free Food, enthusiasm has risen about attending incentive-enriched lecture events with hungry consumerist eyes. In fact, surveying administration and CUSA policies today it is hard to find anyone with balls and determination to deglamorize our campus event hosting arrangements. The issues can be starkly posed as pharisaism forever or rebellion? The threat of pharisaism is real enough. Can we gulp enough sandwiches for 30 seconds?

Malić is scum not worthy of the energy needed for typing this sentence.

That kind of talk and denigration of others are not welcome. I don't care if you don't agree with him - attack his arguments, not him.

Just my 2c.

A Conservative Angle
http://degaullist.wordpress.com

Scum should be called scum and that's the end of the story. Nothing more and nothing less. I have absolutely no intentions into going into his shamefull writings and explaining anyone why only scum can write that kind of thing.

Soooo...you disagree with him therefore he's scum? Alrighty.

A Conservative Angle
http://degaullist.wordpress.com

It has nothing to do with disagreeing but the fact that he is poor human material. To disagree with someone is to acknowledge his opinion as valid. In case of Malić it is enought to say scum and finish all talks.There is nothing valid in hate and mafia.

Of course all of us here in the USA can't wait for the day that we finally pry Kosovo away from Serbia. Most Americans can't sleep, we're so anxious!
Do you really STILL think its the US is to blame for loosing Kosovo ? You really think anyone on this planet besides the Albanians and Serbs really give a shit about Kosovo ?
Certainly this RICH, Developed land with an emense pool of skilled labor and a very peaceful populous, is tempting to every country. - GET REAL, MAN !
Im sure you'll find some Geo-political conspiracy to back up your belief, but until Serbs come to grips with it, there will never be progress : Serbia is to blame for its loss of Kosovo.
And if you ask me, Serbia's policy towards KOSOVO in the past 20 years has been so terrible that it's a god-damn miracle Kosovo isn't independent already.

It seems that there are two sorts of Americans.
1. Ones who don't know where is Iraq.
2. And the ones who don't know what the hell were you looking for in Iraq.
Lucy said " I am not of the opinion that this war has been without positive results. That Saddam Hussein—a man responsible for the systematic usage of chemical weapons against people of his own state—is no longer in power is indisputably an improvement".

What chemical weapons!?!
They didn't find anything in Iraq (but I'm sure that the Serbs are to blaim for that. :) )

The geo-political conection:
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THIS MESSAGE WAS EDITED BY PENTAGON'S CHAT UNIT IN ORDER TO PREVENT THE PROCESS OF THINKING AMONG THE CNN=BBC VIEWERS.
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Well, they did gas those folks in Halabja, but it is questionable whether Saddam really ordered it or not...

But the point is, it didn't bother the Americans when it was taking place. They gave him the chemical weapons, which he DID use on the Iranians during the Iraq-Iran War.

A Conservative Angle
http://degaullist.wordpress.com

Oh, and let's not forget that at the same the US was selling arms to the Iranians and using the proceeds from those sales to fund violent rebel movements in Latin America.

and the things they said they'll find - CANNOT COMPARE.

Saddam used chemical weapons against his own people. This was not the reason the US claimed for war. US forces looking for nuclear power, and I am well aware that they found none. Either way, the point still remains that Saddam committed great crimes against humanity.

It was the chemical weapons which they didn't find in Iraq and nuclear weapons (atomic bomb) which doesn't exist in Iran.

But let us not underestimate the power of a puppet goverment (nor media). I'm sure that some weapons were eventually "found" in Iraq.

The point is that more people died (and will continue to die) as a consequence of US intervention, than as of Saddam's "chemical weapons". (Not counting the victims of US sponsored Iraq-Iran war.) You can say that you killed the cockroach (which I could agree that Saddam was), but what has happened to the house?

But that is all over (for) now. The Democrats have taken over the Senat, and, as we know from our recent history, that means that US are coming to our neigbourhood now. Kosovo.
"To help" of course, why else?!

May God have mercy on us all. Especially on the people who live in Kosovo (the Serbs and Albanians).
They were neglected by their own state (Serbia) for such a long time, and now they'll have more "help" from USA.
I say "more help", for NATO bombings and UNMIK farse are actually a gift to Albanian extremists, and not "liberation" for ordinary people. (There was a Canadian diplomat who refused to participate in UN farse in Kosovo, and he was replaced. I could try to find out his name if you're interested. That would be the proof, right?) I could also find a text that explains "the Sartid-US Steel affair". To show how one US firm, our corrupted politicians and "objective" media work as a team. If this is what is going on in Europe (Serbia), than you can imagine what's going on in Iraq.

Well the US government must give "a shit" about Kosovo or else it wouldn't (a) be a part of the Contact Group of countries, (b) raise the issue at G8 meetings, or (c) send state department emmissaries to Belgrade nearly every damn week.

I can only wish the US were less interested.

Have you ever asked yourself who built up Kosovo's infrastructure, hospitals, schools, and factories? Here's a hint: SERBIA!

You might also want to read some of David Binder's New York Times dispatches from Kosovo during the 80's. Maybe then you'll understand why Kosovo doesn't deserve independence.

Face it, whatever your government touches outside of its borders ends up being a disaster. Good luck with Iran, North Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, the Middle East, Cuba...

What policy? You mean the absence of any sort of Serbian policy. One of the major reasons for the situation today is this lack of any strategy in dealing with a hostile, militant, chauvinistic elements in Kosovo & Metohia, but the seeds of the crisis were planted in the 15th century (with the arrival of an alien religion), and things really took a turn for the worse in 1878 (when Serbia gained independence and the Albanians sensed the end of their Ottoman-sponsored privileges; they rightly felt Serbia was coming back for what's hers, i.e. Kosovo). After that it was all downhill.

It is beyond me how so many people could have bought the line that Miloshevich caused all the trouble. He is a consequence of the Kosovo crisis, not its cause. Had it not been for the Communist-encouraged Albanian apartheid (1968-1990), Miloshevich would've never gained such prominence and, subesquently, power.

The New York Times had published tonnes of stories on the mistreatment of Kosovo Serbs in the early and mid-80s (thanks to Mr. David Binder), way before anyone knew who Miloshevich was.

And how many people actually make any connection whatsoever between the IMF's shock therapy and the break up of Yugoslavia, when 1 million lost their jobs in one go?

A Conservative Angle
http://degaullist.wordpress.com

she is in Srbija, a country where every citizen claims they know politics better than the current president and they all know what kind of footbal national team we should have, again better than the current coach. If she was here in US, its friday nite, and soon enough its time to go the bar and get wasted.

"Today is grey skies, tomorrow is tears,
you'll have to wait til yesterday is here." (T.W.)

yes, the quintessential experts on everything and everyone.....

your dear life depends on politics in Serbia. Or, do you think that kids should just be ... well, kids and do their stuff, like go to the movies, root for their favorite team, play in their sandbox. Except that every once in a while some power crazed politician will send them to fight a war, to kill and be killed, but that, kids, is none of your business. Serbia ain't no Disneyland, and you know it, Brooklyn, I'm sure. No wonder they came up with the slogan "It's springtime and I live in Serbia".

young serb enters the bar. he checks around, he sees this pretty little thing in the corner, and thinks to himself: man, i'd like to talk some politics to her....come on, i mean i hear you, that's why i don't live in serbia, but people can lighten up...and explaning lucy exactly how you feel about us is not very efficient way to prevent every once in a while some power crazed politician sending them to fight a war is it? i mean endless talk about politics helps the matter as much as talking about soccer helps the team.

which bars do you frequent over there? I'll shut up about politics, I promise. And, btw, its Friday night in the city that never sleeps, what are you doing being at work now anyway? :))

that's why i'm this bitter :)))

but it's tough out there for the poor little immigrants like me :)

Besides, who needs bars, when i have b92 and you guys....

You need your fridge too... but I would prefer some lager, not bitter, please... what's on offer? :)

Regards,

Vučko

yeah, way back in college i had a friend who swore by drinking while working / studying…hmm, i wonder what had ever become of her…

Good company for drinking, I would say so. Not sure one can make it one's profession though.

But where's that lager? with some healthy snack as e.g. pork crackling, we can start looking like Lucy's illustration above in no time.

V.

I suspect Ms. Moore has had some of those conversations, it's just that they make for dull blog material.

but giving unsolicited opinion is almost never welcome. if it's an attack on one's homeland, it's even rude. and what's the point? what do you achieve with that?

I don't disagree with you. I hope Ms. Moore experiences many pleasant conversations in Serbia.

Although without unsolicited opinions I guess we wouldn't have Blogs, now would we? As for an attack on one's homeland, I suppose it's even worse when the government of your host country bombs the day lights out of your homeland.

and there we go again...about bombing

about blogs: if you allow comments, you are inviting opinions, so they are not uncolicited, really.

Wait just a second, you live in New York City and you're complaining about unsolicited opinions???

Excellent!

dude, you just made my night!

I aim to please.

Apart from Lucy's blogging being highly or moderately political, and apart from her exclusion in any further comments to her posts, I am actually concerned with the same issue you stated above. I have enormous respect for *apolitical* individuals in Serbia, especially those in their twenties. They choose to preserve their preferences, their values, and live a life disconnected from daily politics which is widely used and abused in Serbia as a damn excuse for every single thing. Not everyone needs to be versed in politics or opinionated in order to contribute to a vision of a better society; in fact, I can understand the contempt of *apathy* much better than the dislike of apolitical attitudes.

the cattle did what was expected on the referendum, and there is no need for them to deal with politics anymore. :)

Or as "Pit i to je Amerika" said (4 Novembar, 2006 - 01:40)
"she is in Srbija, a country where every citizen claims they know politics better than the current president"

Nobody is like our comrad president (Tito, Milosevic, Milutinovic or this one), right Pit? :)

The referendum has failed. Our 'president' has no "politics" but to repeat the words of people smarter than him, our society (the public, media, NGOs ...) isn't mature enough; Lucy doesn't ware make-up (see the picture) and she dislikes cosmetics as well - so she could be(come) one of those bitter persons who talk about "the big evil Serbs/Palestinians" all the time.
And it is all Milosevic's fault. :)

__________________________________________________
Free Palestine!

lucy's been asking for it? Besides how do you know she dislikes cosmetics?

Comments, opinions, different views? I suppose so.

" Besides how do you know she dislikes cosmetics?"

The real question is why do some educated girls/women think that a little make-up would make them look less smart?

i don't know any such women, do you? or are you just guessing...

in fact, make-up is considered here where I work as a way to present yourself in a business manner, so besides business attire, cleanliness, a bit of make-up makes you look more professional to your business associates and closes or opens a lot of new deals. BTW all of the ladies I work with (executives in our corp) wear make-up and the last thing anyone would think of a VP is that she is not smart cause she wears lipstick and mascara.

"Today is grey skies, tomorrow is tears,
you'll have to wait til yesterday is here." (T.W.)

but i would say that women who don't wear make-up don't do it because they can't be bothered with it, not because they think it'll make them look less inteligent.

How much do we really know women? (And by "we" I mean men. Women, on the other hand, don't know themselves at all. That's for sure. :) )

And yes. I'm just guessing here. (Although my guesses are not complitely unfounded.)

Anyhow, that's Lucy's business.

As far as I'm concerned, no make-up is better than too much make-up. :)

as a matter of fact, no make-up in the see of overly made -up women can easily be optimal strategy :))

Dear Sioux,

If you really feel what you wrote, I would most kindly suggest you to read more and write less. If you still can't help it, please do it somewhere else or ask for professional help.

Lucy will have hard time to become what you are anticipating, unless someone like you helps it very much. And more bitter than you in this post can one hardly be. Need not to project it on the people that are open and honest with you, regardless of how much their beliefs are aligned with your reality.

Vučko

criticism accepted.

"The whole point is that the ties of individuals have been severed and rewired to the benefit of a system that contradicts life, or nature, and which has to keep struggling against the natural order to survive, which is a hopeless cause."

Very succinctly put! I agree completely but would also include the 'ideas' of individuals, or the encouragement of any independent thought at all come to that.

America appears to be the worst offender at offering the illusion of free speech, but then allowing people to be victimised, banned and blacklisted for actually using it.

Cheers.

'Tis a land of trivial choices, which they refer to as "a democracy."

A Conservative Angle
http://degaullist.wordpress.com