Is the only thing we have to fear really fear itself?

nope lucy, american officials are saying that "anybody who is concerned for the Serbian province of Kosovo and the future of Serbian people there, are dismissed as a ‘nationalist’". if u know what i mean? ;o)
p.s. pardon my poor english..

I’m not Lucy. Lucy is Lucy :-)

Well, we don’t know what, in full, are American officials saying. That’s why I have asked Lucy to explain.

nevertheless, noone will touch lucy, am i right? ;o)

we have to forgive Lucy for using the words "serbian nationalists" since she was listening only that in a past 15 years (on CNN, Sky news or wherewer). It goes toghether you know "serbian" and "nationalists" . Actually serbian = nationalists in western world. But that is also as a result of ignorance of western people not to say americans and offend Lucy since she deleted my last post (I wont be using the "F" word this time dear Lucy). So after a long time of "washing" their brains on TV and not being familiar with the situiation of course you make this kind of mistake. But then again even if it's trouth I don't see why Albanians on Kosovo are not nationalists for asking for "pure" independent Kosovo on land that is ours for centuries and we ARE nationalists only for trying to defend our terithory and poor people there without electricity ?? You know Lucy in order for you to undertsand I will tell you this example--there are a lot of Mexican in Arizona,as I could see and down to the border perhaps if they try really hard (having 10 children and other ways of strugle) they could get that part of USA to become independent?? And to get it together with Mexico? Of course by using money to buy politicians to be on their side(money from trading and making drugs and from prostitution).
I never saw Richard Holbruk to sit in a socks with some serbian leader you know. Or Wesley Clark shaking hands with serbian leader. Not because we are the bad guys but just because we didn't pay enough money. Otherwise they would shake hands and get out of shoes in a minute my dear.
So since we got this straight--I mean albanians not being nationalists by trying to take over some others therithory and americans not being agressors cause they are actually just care to much for Iraqi people at the moment,we can get to another lesson.
Maybe you should check this site Lucy http://www.chomsky.info/ and go to articles and interviews. I'm sure u heard about this man.

ko se još zanosi pričama o kosovu kao delu srbije osim nacionalista, i navodnih umerenih nacionalista?

pretpostavljam da bi tadić takođe, kao "umereni nacionalista", bio manje retoričan spram kosova kao dela srbije, da je drugačija konstelacija snaga, i da su bliski-nacizmu-radikali i narodnjački dss manje bitne snage na političkoj sceni u zemlji. tadić bi, naime, pod takvim okolnostima morao manje da brine o rejtingu stranke u okviru populističkog bloka (u mojoj fikciji takav narodnjački korpus ne bi ni postojao i srbija bi bila jedna fina, mala i dinamična zemlja), i većina pristojnog sveta bi glasala ili za njega ili za više leve stranke, ili moderne centar-desne tipa g17+, ili koga već ko bi popunio mesto na desnoj strani scene upražnjeno marginalizacijom snaga poput radikala ili narodnjaka koje lucy, mislim, sasvim opravdano naziva "srpskim nacionalistima".

to nije slučaj trenutno, i tadić mora da brine i o tim inadžijskim delovima populacije, tako da se čini da i sam podleže mit-logizacijama tako karakterističnim za naš narod, umesto da rastereti zemlju od nepotrebnog opterećenja i povede nas, jednom i za svagda, u progresivnu budućnost (nakon šesdeset i više godina totalitarizma i kao i posledica te epohe - čitaj 'gubitak dela teritorije').

svi pošto je slučajno Kosovo bilo u Srbiji vekovima, pa smo se nekako slučajno navikli.Tu se više ne radi o tome da li je Kosovo srpsko ili nije ( ja ne smatram da može da bude ako na toj teritoriji nema Srba) niti bi mom bratu dozvolila da ide da se "bori" za Kosovo. Radi se samo o tome da se u 21. veku vrši otimačina pod pretnjom sile jednog dela teritorije jedne suverene države, kakva god ona bila. Vrlo jednostavno da se shvati ako želiš.
A druga stvar, nacionalista ne znači da ne voliš sve što nije srpsko nego znači da voliš ono što je srpsko odnosno tvoje. Koliko sam mogla da primetim Englezi su i te kako nacionalisti kao i Španci npr. ali vi sve to već znate zar ne, pošto bi se razočarala da ne znate, što nas dovodi onda do pitanja šta u stvari imate protiv "srpskih nacionalista"?

to je slično kao što jevreji ne žele da daju zapadnu obalu, jer su tamo vekovima živeli, zidali sinagoge, družili sa aleksandrom velikim, stradali od epifanusa iv seleukida, družili sa markom antonijem pa gledali kako im vespazijan, titus i hadrijan sve ruše, pa onda vekovima više nisu bili na toj zemlji, pa su se ponovo vratili i oduzeli je od drugih koji su se tamo nastanili u periodu njihovog odsustva, da bi im potom, kada su se ti drugi pobunili protiv jevrejskog prisustva na zemlji koja im nije pripadala, uveli neki vid uprave koji je sličan aparthejdu.

otimačina je izvršena krajem dvadesetog veka. ne treba zaboraviti kontekst u kojem je do toga došlo, a to je da smo kao narod došli do jednog klimaksa rđavosti, da nas je istorija kaznila predsedništvom jednog tako neuglednog čoveka kakav je bio slobodan milošević. taj slobodan milošević je uspeo da povede naciju u rat da bi je zadržao okupljenom na jednoj teritoriji, i taj rat je vodio tako da je nacija izgubila veći deo teritorije na kojem je živela. slobodan milošević je bio loš političar i loš, do zla boga uobražen i nasilan čovek, sirovina. on je bio neka suma rđavosti, oličenje svih onih pripadnika naše nacije - if you will - koji su druge naše sunarodnike proganjali, krali im i otimali imovinu, rušili sopstvene spomenike samo da tim drugima naude, pa čak ih i trpali na robiju i ubijali, da bi im lakše oteli imovinu i živote. ti ljudi su, posle, ostali moćni, i doveli su jednog aparatčika slobodana miloševića na vlast. dakle, može se reći da je slobodan milošević bio oličenje ružnila jednog naroda, i na naše sunarodnike čije je on oličenje predstavljao se odnosi ta klasifikacija 'srpski nacionalisti'. ne znam zašto vam je to toliko teško da prihvatite? koštunica, nikolić, šešelj, drašković; svi ti političari su ostali u cipelicama slobodana miloševića, pa je normalno da se taj termin sada preneo na njih.

albanci su odlučili da odigraju gambit protiv tog i takvog čoveka. odigrali su ga prilično pametno, kombinujući moć i finansije. za razliku od nas koji smo imali tu nesreću da na mestu predsednika imamo čoveka koji je bio oličenje ljudske podmuklosti, albanci su imali sreću da na mestu direktora jedne jako bitne institucije imaju jako spretnog čoveka - džordža teneta. taj gospodin je u svemu umeo da upotrebi svoju poziciju na najbolji način po svoje sunarodnike albance, a i sami albanci su raspolagali sa dovoljno sredstava da svoja nastojanja realizuju na najbolji mogući način: milošević je, za razliku od albanaca, novac od heroina, preprodaje oružja i belog roblja upotrebljavao za svoje lične ciljeve - albanci su novac upotrebljavali za kolektivne. odgovaralo im je i to da je predsednik klinton doveo sebe u nepriliku zbog svojih nestašnih hormona, i da je nekako morao da skrene pažnju sa sebe. pritom se i gospodin milošević potrudio prethodno da pošalje policiju koja će ljude ubijati u već dobrom i oprobanom srebrenica-maniru. masa nesrećnih okolnosti po srbiju, da...

da li vi želite - kažete da imate brata - sada da vam neko vrati tog brata ubogaljenog ili u plastičnoj vreći da biste imali satisfakciju pravde, nešto što nismo dobili pod miloševićem, tenetom i klintonom? ja ću uskoro imati dete i ne želim da mi ga neko vrati u takvoj vreći, zbog nekakve teritorije s kojom ja neću nikada imati veze.

koji je naš rezon,
pored toga što smo pretrpeli nepravdu pod miloševićevom i klintonovom administracijom, da mislimo o kosovu kao delu srbije? oružje? ja ga ne volim.

i naravno da ne bih dozvolila mom bratu da mu fali dlaka s glave ne zbog Kosova nego zbog bilo čega samo me strašno ljuti što sve te "civilizovane,visokorazvijene,nenacionalističke" države čak ne ni u rukavicama, prete, ucenjuju i na kraju i dobijaju ono što žele silom i oružjem.

What I managed to see today in tv reports of the gathering took me back to the 90s. The Serbian National Council, supported by SRS, DSS and SPS. Once again, they were carrying pictures of the Chinese and Russian presidents, narrating epic tales of conspiracy against Serbia, carrying the same slogans, etc. It was very sad. Those people continue to carry the burden of the legacy of the 90s.

What a useless generalisation!

Carrying the pictures of foreign presidents is nationalism?

And are you saying that people don’t even have the right to demonstrate against blatant theft of their land? Because you don’t like their look, their flags or what they have to say?

I do agree with you, however, that it is sad. We have, at the beginning of the XXI century Europe something which has an unmistakable colour of 1930’s Europe. Then, as now, it was said that one European country has to have her province taken away as to preserve the peace. And we all know how that one ended.

it is a stupidity. What they are trying, to provoke WW3?
Do you realy believe in that?

Kosovo was lost in a war against 19 countries.

čime tačno vi potkrepljujete ovu tvrdnju?

(I thought this blog was in English?)

Then, as now, it was said that one European country has to have her province taken away as to preserve the peace.

Are you saying this is not so? That the rhetoric is not "independence for Kosovo is the only way to preserve peace, avoid violence and achieve stability"?

unless you argue, though, that the Albanians succeeded to achieve most of their independence in a sort of Mafia-style gamble. in such aspect, the situation in between kosovo, the U. S. and serbia resembles rather mr. capone' s chicago than the wishful thinking of yours, and your comparison to the European-harbored betrayal of the libertine czechoslovakia to the totalitarian hitlerianism.

I clearly said "1930's Europe", but I appreciate your comparison with the 1930's America.

Do you know that J. Edgar Hoover for many years denied there is such a thing as nationwide organized crime? It reminds me of denial that the KLA are terrorist or that today's Kosovo is run by criminals and warlords.

Hoover surely knew the Mafia existed but there was particular interest to deny it. As same as with the realities of Kosovo.

As for my comparison, it is no wishful thinking. Far from it. Are you really saying that there is no similarity whatsoever? What about the NATO 'intervention' of 1999? When countries were forced to participate in aggression on another country. You think if it was left to Greece to decide they would join in? Do you know when was the last time something similar happened in Europe?

i do not precisely follow the trait of your thinking here.

what kind of totalitarian threat do you find in nowadays political mainstream in europe? how does it endanger serbia, or for that matter, how did it imperil miloshevic's orthodox-communist, or the present orthodox-nationalist and semi-democratic serbia? how do you compare that, then, to the dismissal of czechoslovakia's freedom at the hands of playful Britain, France, Italy and Germany? what was the political system and structure of czechoslovakia of that epoch, and how is it analogical to mr miloshevich's or mr koshtoonicah's serbia?

How about 78 days of merciless bombing, wanton destruction of infrastructure and industry, killing of hundreds of civilians, using radioactive ordinance followed by ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands, finished by theft of 15% of territory including all the national property there? Which was all preceded by the "negotiations" under the threat of force. All of the above illegal under international law!

How is that for a threat?

And I don't claim the circumstances are exactly as they were in the 1930's. But that the colour (or if you prefer, the flavour) is similar. There is insatiable ambition to dominate others, there are massive breaches of international law, there is Goebbelsian propaganda, and, we are told, the only goal of all this is peace. And above all the doctrine that might is right!

Now do I deserve an answer to my question?

I understand perfectly your pain and bitterness, regarding the injustice the Serbs had suffered under Presidents Milošević and Clinton, yet frankly, i do not find that sufficient in order to build up a claim of similarity, or approximity, in between the 30's Europe and an end of millenium's Western, or so-called Free World.

I understood that historical episode as a gamble, Mafia-style showdown, as i marked previously. If President Clinton may have used some Goebbelsian precepts, President Milošević used some Stalinist, so we witnessed then a remarkable showdown, with all those rockets, missiles, invisible planes, and all the wonders of that brave old military-hummanist civilization.

Might is always right, one way or another; yet sadly enough we did not have any smart statesmen who would realize that, and now, yes, we are crying by the rivers of Sitnica over the loss of piece of an ancient teritory.

Srđane da ti se odmah izvinim zato što ću žestoko da trolujem sa ovim pitanjem, ne moraš da odgovoriš ako te mrzi. Mislio sam da ćeš ti nešto više znati o tome. Imao sam raspravu sa mojim ujakom. Naime, ja sam tvrdio, kao da je to opste znanje koje se ne moze dovesti u pitanje, da je Isus Hrist bio jevrejin i da je aramejski jezik kojim je govorio, jedna vrsta jevrejskog jezika, unekoliko slicna najznacajnijem jevrejskom jeziku- Hebrejskom jeziku. On me je medjutim ubedjivao da je Isus bio Jermen, odnosno kako on to kaze, Armen i da je manje vise daleki predak danasnjih Jermena (Armena).Poznato ti je da taj narod Turci nazivaju Jermenima, što njih vređa. Skoro ceo svet je prihvatio termin koji je originalan tj.- Armeni. Jedan od njegovih argumenata je bio taj sto je ime Isusovog jezika u stvari Armenski, a ne kako mi kazemo Aramejski, on misli da je to malo starija verzija danasnjeg Jermenskog jezika. Mislim da je Isus jevrejin, ali me je njegova prica malo bacila u zbun. Još jednom izvini za upadanje sa ovom digresijom i unapred ti hvala za informaciju. Pozdrav!

pošto mi se čini da je tema otišla u zaborav.

ono što znamo o gospodinu je'šua-i (isusu) je od njegovih hroničara, sinoptista. može da bude da su armeni zaista arameni, nekakav stari mesopotamijski narod, ali ja znam malo o njihovoj drevnoj istoriji. za gospodina jehošua-u (isusa) imamo genealoški zapis, i tvrdi se da je njegova mati marija iz familije kralja davida. kod luke još imamo informaciju da je marija i rođaka jelisaveti, majci jovana krstitelja. jelisaveta ima muža zahariju, koji je sveštenik u jevrejskom hramu. jehošuin (isusov) očuh ili staratelj josif je takođe jevrejin, i to možemo zaključiti na osnovu više podataka kod svih pisaca jevanđelja.

moguće je da su jermeni u stvari arameni, i da su ih tako nazvali mesopotamijske komšije na osnovu jezika kojim su komunicirali. ako su komunicirali u prošlosti aramejskim jezikom, moguće je da su tada semitski narod, i da postoji nekakva srodnost sa arapima i jevrejima. aramejski jezik u isusovo vreme je govorni jezik semitskog porekla u oblasti koele-sirije, odnosno donje ili nižnje sirije (to je oblast koja obuhvata delove današnje sirije, zatim liban, izrael, palestinu i delove jordana). problem ovde, o dovođenju u biološku vezu isusa i jermena upotrebom lingvistike (ako pre toga, uopšte, dozvolimo da su jevanđelja dovoljan dokaz da je isus postojao) je u tome što se jermenski svrstava u indoevropske jezike i što je srodan grčkom i ima malo ili nimalo veze sa jevrejskim ili aramejskim, koji su semitski jezici.

u svakom slučaju, u starom gradu u jerusalimu, pored jevrejske, muslimanske i hrišćanske četvrti, imamo i jermensku četvrt, sa oko 2 ili 3 hiljade stanovnika, prispelih tu mahom izbeglištvom pred genocidom u turskoj prošlog stoleća. od malo koga od tih stanovnika sam čuo da oni ispovedaju isusa kao jermenina. štaviše, ispovedaju ga kao boga koji je uzeo ljudsko obličje (monofizitizam), i njihov obred je najsličniji grčko-pravoslavnom, mada nije sasvim identičan. u teološkom smislu, isus je za jermene a-, odnosno nadnacionalan. za jevreje, isus je bio ili sunarodnik-varalica, čovek koji je tvrdio za sebe da je bog, ili istorijska fikcija, odnosno crkvena umisao.

Hvala. Drago mi je da nisi zavlačio, već si odgovorio najkonkretnije koliko to pitanje dopušta.

I agree, that was a sad picture, but you should know that those people are mostly from Kosovo, they came from Kosovo, they are not living in Belgrade. They are emotionaly involved in that thing about Kosovo (most of them probably lost some member(s) of the family in war)so we should all blame authorities in Serbia for encouraging them to act in that manner. If you look back in the past you'll see that they never had opinion of their own, they always looked for Belgrade to solve their problems.I dont't know if you are aware of that, but the guy who is their leader, Milan Ivanović is very dangerous man. During the riots in K. Mitrovica he threw hand bombs across the river, to the south side of the city. And he is a doctor! What an irony!

But again, nationalists always thrive on the mishaps of others, everywhere.
The problem is that those people have been manipulated into thinking that it would be better for them if Belgrade showed the middle finger to the West, rather than try to make their life better.

And every time they showed the middle finger to the West, as you said, that finger was broken. What is amazing is that they are still buying that story! I realy don't know what is the genesis of that mentality? I mean, I have lived here, in Belgrade, for all my life, I have listened Miloševics propaganda machinery almost every day, and still I think that that story is completly bullshit! But then again, I have never lost someone because of all that was going on here. So, practicly, we are spinning in circle on that subject. Basic is, I think, that some bad people have lucrative interests to asure those poor people that reality is completly different, and at some point (long time ago) those people gain the power in this country (sorry if spelling was wrong).

... nisam cuo odavno! A povrh svega mi nije jasno kakve veze ima sa ovom pricom??

Prijatelju, verovatno si popio 2-3 "Dzeka" viska pa nisi ni primetio kako se ponasas kad su te izbacili!

a kako su ti studenti nesto drugo, bas me zanima? Jel stvarno mislis da im je sve dozvoljeno jer su sa Dztauna? Ili su i oni bili neki Arapi?

cold and frosty morning there's not a lot to say
about the things caught in my mind
and as the day is dawning my plane flew away
with all the things caught in my mind

and I wanna be there when you're coming down
and I wanna be there when you hit the ground

so don't go away
say what you say
but say that you'll stay
forever and a day in the time of my life
'cause i need more time
yes, i need more time, just to make things right

damn my situation and the games i have to play
with all the things caught in my mind
damn my education i can't find the words to say
about the things caught in my mind

and I wanna be there when you're coming down
and I wanna be there when you hit the ground

so don't go away
say what you say
but say that you'll stay
forever and a day in the time of my life
'cause i need more time
yes, i need more time, just to make things right

me and you what's going on?
all we seem to know is how to show the feelings that are wrong

so don't go away
say what you say
but say that you'll stay
forever and a day in the time of my life
'cause i need more time
yes, i need more time, just to make things right

and don't go away
say what you say
but say that you'll stay
forever and a day in the time of my life
'cause i need more time
yes, i need more time, just to make things right

so don't go away ;)

nice :)