To Kosovo and back

Is "America twisting the battle into a tool of imperialism guised as freedom?"

I don't drink, but I’ll join in once we all have something to celebrate. As of yet, there is nothing except swimming and keeping the head above the water. But if you insist, I'll sacrifice and take a glass of either kind.

http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:EetaEfZwFwAJ:www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/istorija/stradanje_srba/atanasije_2deo.html+jednonacionalno+trovanje&hl=sr&ct=clnk&cd=3&lr=lang_sr

mislio sam da znas srpski..mrzi me da kucam na englishu,ali samo jedna rec..jednonacionalno trovanje.albanian fake poisoning!!!

Evo sta sam nasla malopre:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Rastko

http://www.answers.com/topic/project-rastko

western civilization?
i thought it was uner ottoman empire or more precisly turkish empire.
do you remember the country you dont wont be part of EC?

nothing more.

I really do hope that I'm wrong. As far as it can be seen, our neighbors still live in the tribal communities, with most of the efforts to change this done since '45 still remaining ineffective. This is the fact, since this effort was done, also, from the side of the Alb friendly nations in the previous SFRJ - and even that did not help them to brake out the tribal deadlock. Not to mention constructive influence of Serbia that did exists in some (if not the most) extent.

I think that your comment describes the core of the Albanian-Serbian problem, or should I be more specific in addressing your comment and call it “the Serbian problem with Albanians"? However, apart from the fact that your blunt remark about our “tribal neighbours” could be understood as offensive or ignorant (or at least politically incorrect), the main problem in Serbian society is that terribly wrong perception of Albanian people that you have managed to describe in just a few sentences.

Nevertheless, your comment should not be ignored, in fact, your description of “constructive influence of Serbia” should be taken very seriously as it represents the opinion of majority of Serbian population. So my point is, if one wants to analyse this existing problem between two nations, one should always be reminded that Serbian perception of Albanian culture is full of ignorance and miss-interpretation as we (Serbs), generally speaking, do not just have a common understanding with Albanians but we can not even recognise Albanians as civilised people.

I never mentioned the sintagm "tribal neighbors", I said "neighbors that live in the tribal communities" which does not in any wat imply that they are not civilized (which would be blunt thing to say).

Extent of the civilized life on Kosovo throughout the history, in relation to it's population, is yet another subject.

"I never mentioned the sintagm "tribal neighbors", I said "neighbors that live in the tribal communities" which does not in any wat imply that they are not civilized (which would be blunt thing to say)."

But I still don't get your point. People who live in tribal communities can be called "tribal people" because when you say "tribal people" you mean that those people live in tribal communities. Does that make sense?

Tribal community consists of a social group that existed before the development of state, so because it existED before modern society, this social unit called tribe could be named "primitive" (or "not-civilised" if you like). I suggest you open a dictionary and look for the word.

Ok? Do you see now what you've done wrong?

interpretation that I hoped to avoid.

If the matter was straightforward as you suggested (regarding direct implication of primitivism from the type of social unit people live in), this would solve a lot of problems in the first place.

Actually, here (by this I mean not only our country) you have a mixture of modern and relict types of social units (tribal, early peoples states, young nations, ...). So, consequently, you have people that, in reality, live in one type of social unit, but also have had opportunity to be in contact with the other bit advanced types of social life (not only some of Albanians).

I think that it is possible that you have people who actually live in tribal communities, and yet are in some extent incorporated in some more advanced types of social units (some time spent in city, or abroad). This is, maybe, some kind of transition. For some people it takes less time, for some bit more, ... for some indefinitely.

So, my point is that Albanians are thaking much longer time to perform this transition , when compared to other people on Balkans, and this is the fact. No stories about some urban population can change the fact that the centuries have passed (and several different states and regimes), yet thay are slow to transform their relict social units, in general. Not to mention the side effects, that are causing problems not only to macedonians, serbs ... but to Germany, France, ... even USA on it's home soil.

i see that merely as a hygienic precaution...

had you ever set your foot into an average loo in kosovo, hotels exempted, you wouldnt categorize it as bastardised view...

im not saying here that some people were not scared to death, due to them being misinformed, to step out of the car, but basically if you have ladies in the car they would be much better off holding it till you get anywhere north of mitrovica

'I see that merely as a hygienic precaution'

That thought didnt even occur to me must admit. Although I disagree with you strongly if you are suggesting that the toilets were any worse in Kosovo than they were in the rest of southern Serbia or inland montenegro. The story wasnt so different in Croatia either if you go back a few years. Thus if it was a hygenic comment then surely best hold it in until you get home rather than hold it until you leave Kosovo. But kudos to Lucy for using the line because it obviously means different things to different people.

On the other hand if one is using Kosovo in ones brain as a synonym for backward or primative or if one considers those that argue in favour of Kosovo being Serbian etc as being somehow not urban or 'civlised' enough - well its not difficult to conclude that some bastardisation is going on.

all of them are just plain disgusting but if you realy need to categorize it in sanitary way, those in kosovo are at the bottom on the list hands down. imagine 'the worst toilet in scotland' , multiply by any large number...

for the last statement, the wording is important... if you are using it as a synonym for primitive, thats , well, at least biased opinion.
but if you just make a statement that kosovo is , to some extent, more primitive , or backward, than any given country or region, i dont see a problem here...
because it probably is.

As always Soylent, effective, cynical and to the point! :) Bravo! :)

who had made strategical investment in someone elses infatuation and hoped for the profit.
That person died poor.

too many of those who made the same kind of investment and continued to reap hefty profit from it even after death!
Talk about other people's infatuation? Let me count the ways you can make a buck out of it: infatuation with celebrities of all stripes, fashion, status symbols... Invest early and you'll be a rich man!

Yo, how's Kamala, man?

Thank you for asking.
By the way, I know the guy who has made that kind of investment you mentioned above. Milos is his name. He invested early and he is rich now as you say... But, he is also very sad. He can't make his girl happy. If you know what I mean....

all those are the same as the one I knew....
In time....

You mean, independence, for sure?

while I totally believe your story and am sure it is representative of what goes on down there on a daily basis, you would have a bit more credibility if you had registered more than a few hours ago!

"...you would have a bit more credibility if you had registered more than a few hours ago!"

And what is that got to do with anything? So what if he's just been registered?

Btw, what happen to lucy? She opened this blog and didn't send any reply so far.

bez veze, totally :{

good night lucy, it's been a great pleasure talking to you.

Don't worry, that is her M.O. - write and forget :)

that's my M. O.
And I'm not the only one who read the comments here - you don't need my responses to validate what you write. When will you guys ever learn... ;)

No problemo... but, just write "Lucy is here" from time to time so that we know you are watching us... :)

He's right. You should engage in the discussion. That's what blogs are all about...

Often times people sign up a second user just to post a single comment, either to hide who they are, or to make it look like there are more users with the same opinion... you know what I'm talking about...

Oldtajmer, you've been registered for 32 weeks and 5 days. Wow - that makes you credible. Tell you what, I'll come back and re-post my comment in 32 weeks and 6 days if that will make you happy. This is exactly why I usually don't register to post comments on blogs - one wastes too much time responding to this kind of thing.

If you'd like a scan of the passport stamp I received entering Kosovo last August, send me a note and I'll mail it to you. Otherwise, that's as much time as I care to spend on this thread. Thanks and cheers.

I said I don't doubt your story is true. You know what I described goes on a lot, so don't play dumb.

Dear getz011. there are many parallels that can be drawn between Kosovo and the US in regards to the Albanian suspicious attitude toward the Serbs entering Kosovo. While I deeply feel bad that things have come to this point where neighbors do not trust each other, that is a different story. I think we all know how that came to be.
However, considering that Serbs (I do not mean to generalize) still cause problems in Kosovo, to the war-traumatized Albanians, such as Mitrovica where you have to take off your Kosovo car plates if you want to escape without a bullet thru your car windshield, Albanians do have all the reasons to be wary of them.

Let’s look at the situation in our country, USA. I am ashamed with the American prejudice against the muslims. I have spoken to many of them, and just to hear about their treatment and suspicion against them at US borders is unfortunate. And, yet I do understand the border officials. Some certain individuals have put a bad name to all muslims that now they have to live with.

Referring to a specific case that was on CNN’s Paula Zahn’s show. IBRAHIM "ABE" DABDOUB, RESIDENT OF OHIO, a US citizen with a family of a few kids and some family in Canada, gets stopped for hours (sometimes shorter sometimes longer) at the US-Canada border EVERY SINGLE time he passes through. And that is a few times a month. “Since last August, he and his wife, separately or together, have returned from Canada 17 times, and he says that, each of those 17 times, they have been detained.” (CNN).
”We followed Abe Dabdoub across the Ambassador Bridge from Windsor, Ontario, to Detroit, where all the stops have happened. At the U.S. checkpoint, sure enough, he is taken out of his car for questioning. We meet up with him after his release.” (Paula Zahn and her CNN news crew).

Now, in your words “The idea, repeated often in the news and official pronouncements, that Kosovo is a democratic entity commited to equal rights for all is a sad joke. God help the non-Albanians there when it gains official autonomy”, I must echo it back for our dear country too:
The saying, repeated often in the news and among our fellow Americans, that US is a free country and the most democratic that promotes freedom and equal rights to anyone, is a sad joke. God help the non-white, non-Christian Americans (let alone foreigners) when they step foot in our soil.”

At least she makes the effort to try and understand the often common misconceptions Kosovar Albanians and Belgraders have about each other.

What's patronizing is the tone of your posts against anyone who challenges the "conventional wisdom" that Albanians and Serbs should hate each other just because.

Of course she understands that the issues are extremely complex. What she's addressing is the fact that Kosovar Albanians and Belgraders think they live extremely different lives when in reality they live very much alike. She's also addressing the propaganda that keeps these two people ignorant of each other. As stated in the comments above, it's very easy to confuse and contain a populace about another when you keep them ignorant about each other (case in point, the US vs. the USSR). Fear and hate are extremely useful tools and these are used quite effectively in keeping diplomatic dialogue from happening. No one is willing to take a conciliatory attitude towards the situation and the governments of both peoples use fear and hate of each other to keep it that way.