Join the Western Media Battle over Serbia's Thuggish Image

I don't believe this would work... Serbs are crazy fascists and that's it. Nobody cares.

Dear Rosemary,

By now you have probably understood that most of smart and well educated Serbian people are currently too busy blasting on their own country, their own people, their own national identity and tradition (God forbid, beware, here I am using these nasty words such as identity and tradition!!! I am probably ultra radical nationalist, so don't listen to me anymore).

Serbian "elite" spent more time and energy ravaging around girls who were stealing during the protest then on the fact that Hashim Taci was in fact indicted by the Hague Tribunal and released as he was seen as the best and most balanced political solution for Kosovo leadership by USA and EU. I have not seen a single commentary or statement made by Serbian intellectual on that, for example.

It always amazes me how creative, energized and restless Serbs become when they are criticizing other Serbs, and still so lethargic and disinterested when Serbs are target of insult, international law violation, ill practices by PR and lobby firms.

Oh my dear Rosemary, how do you expect for me (for instance) to react to that text, when I agree to most of it.
I strongly dissagree with:

A SERBIAN leader delivered another demonstration Thursday of why it was necessary for NATO and the United Nations to intervene to protect the province of Kosovo and then to guide it to independence.

but else, it is mostly true.
In the text they did not mention crimes against Serbs, especially on Kosovo, but those crimes were no excuse. Not back then, and not now.
Did you hear what leading politicians in Serbia ware talking these days? Did you read the newest conspiracy theories in Serbian media?
How can we make our picture in the world media nicer, when it is just ugly. We are not capable of defeating those people who came out from Milosevic's coat (I don't know English phrase for that), and protecting the principles that we voted for. What can we then really defend in the world media?

basically saying Serbs Yet Again Suck

Which we do. We have allowed the downtown region of our capital to be in flames, to be systematically ravaged and vandalized for almost a week continually and government and church sponsored rally was called to further add fuel to the fire. We deserve everything we get, not because those idiots did what they did but because the rest of us allowed for it to happen.

I'm not particularly fond of people insulting me, but this time they're right. And there are absolutely no excuses. Maybe some people think there are excuses, that's their busyness. I'd wager those are the same people who see nothing wrong with what Velja Ilic is saying or with the fact that two certified child molesters went unpunished only because they happen to be priests.

Granted, our public image is of some importance and should be worked on. I don't disagree with that. But I don't think making a comment on a foreign news site will do much good while we are held hostage by the fat bastard in charge. And besides, the only thing having Serbs commenting on foreign sites will accomplish is a lot of poorly worded, very illiterate praises to war criminals and crude insults thrown at everything western. Experience shows we look best when we don't try to make ourselves look better.

Oh, Rosemary, please. You can do better than that.

We are thugs, we have always been that way. Violent and vindictive.

It is very noble of you to try find an excuse for us, but simply there is not any. And by that I do not intend to absolve the US government of its share of responsibility for the mess created in ex-Yugoslavia. But we are hurting ourselves, repeatedly, we can never learn, and it's sad.

The media in US is simplistic and one sided, but who cares. It is not our problem, it is yours.It can not be an excuse for us behaving as cavemen.

You have to sound like a WASP

Serbs never, well, seldom sound like WASPs.
Firstly, becouse they are not.
Secondly, one has to master English in a WASPish way in order to reach WASPear.

Your advice is sound, though.

Maybe you can write a post about difference between WASP ways of communicating and our long drooled arguments stuffed with THEYs, THEMs, THENs and THATs?
That would be fun!

Rosemary, you always come across as sweet and naiive.
As a principle, it is true that Serbia needs to think more abou t the way it presents itself to the world.
But how many people who read ie Washington Post actually read readers' comments and how relevant to the world politics they are? Mostly the authors and those personally interested in the matters addressed.
I do not think that Turks have better comments in the Washington Post, still yesterday they chased Kurds all the way across Iraqi border with no problems.

Rosemary, why do you think that our comments would change anything in US biased media? Have you not yet realized that these media just serve the US foreign policy? And that policy is firmly on the side of Albanians. No amount of letters to the editor, blogging or (expensive) lobbying can change that.

And, as you see here, it is probably better that there is no reaction.

Rosemary,

A defence or sympathetic explanation of why the US embassy was burnt, shops looted etc. at this time, is not a defence of Serbia nor Serbs in general.

It would be a defence of the DSS/Radicals/NS who organised these demonstrations and control the police who allowed the demonstrators to burn the embassy through their absence. By linking current events to "Serbia" rather than the machinations of a particular group of rather unpleasant politicians, you fall for the nationalistic trap.

Perhaps you support the DSS/Radicals/NS, if so, then well and fine.

But if you don't then I would strongly advise you to recommend to all those in Serbia you would like to advise on PR that the best thing they can do is vote out of office the rather primitive demagogues who encouraged the rioting and don't appear very pleasant to look at on TV.

That's the former paramilitary thug turned gravedigger turned radical deputy leader Nikolic, Mr. Kostunica (he who brandished the AK-47) and Velja Ilic, a man who's entire face now tells the story of his various bizness deals in a rather Dorian Grayesque manner.

At this point, the best PR tactic would be to get out on the streets again, this time to get rid off V. Kostunica like we got rid off Milosevic in 2000. At that time, our image score jumped through the roof! Desperate situation requires desperate measures. Online posts, while certainly welcomed, just won't cut it.

So far, Canadian press has been very careful with respect to name calling. US press is more sensationalistic and nationalistic compared to the Canadian press. Also Canadians would never use such words as thugs or suck when talking about other nations regardless who they are. That is more US bullish and primitive vocabulary. US press reminds me of Serbian press because everyone can say whatever they want without any consequences. Even New York Times has lowered itself to likes of Jerry Springer by revealing alleged love affair of John McCain.
Only WASPs can be WASPs. I know US and UK would like everyone to be like them, but that is not possible. Even within their own borders. Anyway, I do not know what is going on in the US but here are some bits from one of the major Canadian Newspapers.



Globe and Mail

Tread carefully on Kosovo, Chrétien says
Former prime minister Jean Chrétien spoke out about Canada's potential recognition of an independent Kosovo yesterday, urging Canadian officials to be careful because of the impact a decision could have on Quebec separatists.
“Canada has to be careful because people want to separate from Canada,” Mr. Chrétien told reporters yesterday after he was asked for his thoughts about Kosovo's independence. However, he added that the situation in Canada is less ambiguous than in Kosovo because the Clarity Act outlines the rules for separation from the country.
Kosovo's declaration of independence from Serbia less than a week ago has prompted strong reactions around the world. Serbia signalled it will withdraw its ambassador from any country that recognizes the new state. Many of Canada's most important allies – including the United States, the United Kingdom and France – have already recognized Kosovo's independence. However, Ottawa has been silent on the issue so far.
Mr. Chrétien spoke about Kosovo with reporters in Rideau Hall, moments after being inducted into the highest rank of the Order of Canada at a ceremony headed by the Governor-General. While Mr. Chrétien was forthcoming with his thoughts on Kosovo, he was less so on the issue of a possible federal election call next week. The former prime minister said the decision to have an election rested with the opposition parties, and he would not act as a “Monday morning quarterback” on the issue.
With files from Omar El Akkad
*********************************************************************
In the Toronto protest, organized by five Canadian-Serbian university students and scheduled for 5 p.m. today, up to 10,000 people are expected to gather across the street from the U.S. Consulate on University Avenue to urge the Canadian government not to recognize Kosovo's declaration, according to organizer Jovan Filipovic, a student at Ryerson University.
“It is of the utmost importance for us that this is peaceful,” Mr. Filipovic said. “There's a large number of people who take things like this to heart, but we're Canadians first, and then we're Serbs.”
Mr. Filipovic said he is “fairly confident” the crowd can be kept calm. Organizers will urge restraint over loudspeakers and a candlelight vigil is planned.
Mr. Filipovic tried to dispel fears that displays of photographs of churches and monasteries allegedly burned or vandalized by Kosovo Albanians will cause tensions to escalate.
“We're saying, ‘Canadians, we cannot allow this to happen,' ” he said. “If anything, it will bring awareness.”
Toronto Police Staff Sergeant Shaun Narine, who will patrol today's protest, said police are worried about a potential standoff between the Serb protesters and Albanian agitators.
“I think it's going to be a peaceful rally, but if an Albanian side shows up, that's where we're going to have to look at safety options,” he said, adding that response units are available if problems arise.
A spokesperson for the U.S. Consulate said no staff will be in the building today, and the RCMP has been working with Toronto police to ensure security.
Police warned last night that the demonstration could disrupt traffic on University Avenue.
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Canada should resist on Kosovo
Soon after the assembly of Kosovo issued its unilateral declaration of independence from Serbia, the politicians adopted a flag for their new country. But the secessionists already have a flag. It's the flag of Albania, and the allegiance to it by the ethnic Albanians who make up 90 per cent of Kosovo's population suggests independence could be just a prelude to the creation of a greater Albania.

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Why we shouldn't jump on the Kosovo bandwagon
MARCUS GEE
From Friday's Globe and Mail
The Serbian parliament condemns Kosovo's declaration of independence. Angry Serbs throng the streets of Belgrade in protest, and rioters break into the U.S. embassy. Just another spasm of ethnic bigotry in the Balkans? It's not so simple. When Serbs argue that Kosovo's leap to independence has no legal sanction, they have a point. When they say it sets an awful precedent, they have an even better one. Let's remember how all this came about.



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OK, Ottawa: Seize the moment and clear up the secession confusion
WILLIAM JOHNSON
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Will the international recognition of Kosovo's secession - like Montenegro's in 2006 - create a precedent favouring the secession of Quebec? That's the assumption behind the jubilation in Quebec's secessionist circles since Kosovo's parliament proclaimed a unilateral declaration of independence. The Parti Québécois was quick to claim a parallel, notably through Daniel Turp, a long-time pro-separation professor of constitutional law and now a PQ MNA.
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Recognizing Kosovo could backfire for Ottawa, expert says
RHÉAL SÉGUIN
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
February 21, 2008 at 4:40 AM EST
QUEBEC CITY — Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence is a clear example of how powerless the federal government would be to stop Quebec from doing the same, according to influential Quebec City lawyer André Joli-Coeur.
Mr. Joli-Coeur, who 10 years ago made the same argument before the Supreme Court of Canada in the Quebec secession reference, said that should Ottawa recognize the declaration of independence of Kosovo, it will have difficulty refusing Quebec the same status should the province eventually declare its independence.
"The case of Kosovo clearly demonstrates that the essential factors in the creation of a state are the will of the population of the territory concerned and the attitude of the international community," Mr. Joli-Coeur stated in a letter to The Globe and Mail. "The predecessor state does not necessarily play a decisive role in such matters."
Recognizing Kosovo independence could one day backfire against Ottawa, he argued.
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Kosovo has set a precedent, Palestinians say
Aide to Mahmoud Abbas is latest prominent official to suggest that if peace talks fail, declaring independence should be next step
MARK MACKINNON
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
February 21, 2008 at 4:40 AM EST
JERUSALEM — If the Kosovars can unilaterally declare themselves an independent state, why can't the Palestinians do the same? With peace talks between Israel and the Palestinian Authority ground to an effective halt, it's a question some senior Palestinian officials are pondering.
Yasser Abed Rabbo, an aide to Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas, became the latest and most prominent figure to endorse the idea yesterday when he suggested that if the ongoing peace talks with Israel fail, the Palestinian Authority should follow Kosovo's lead and declare a state. The Palestinian territories have been occupied by Israel since the 1967 war.
"Kosovo is not better than us. We deserve independence even before Kosovo, and we ask for the backing of the United States and the European Union for our independence," Mr. Abed Rabbo told the Voice of Palestine radio station.
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and something from the CBC radio.

http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/asithappens_20080221_4801.mp3 Dejan Anastasijevic I Lawrence Eagleburger

http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/asithappens_20080222_4827.mp3 Oliver Ivanovic I Goran Dimitrijevic (B92)

A cynical response would be that actions speak louder than words. I dont believe though that those actions seen on Thursday represent Serbia and most of its people. I am an Albanian (from Albania) who has spent the last 15 years living in various Western countries. I have met several Serbs whom I have come to respect intelectually and personally. Whenever we speak of problems in our region we open our hands, shrug and sigh.

What I see as the biggest challenge in front of Serb politicians and society at the moment is to understand and then accept why Serbia lost the game where it really mattered, i.e. in major Western European capitals. Assuming that the US had already made up its mind, the whole Kosovo issue depended on how major Western European countries would have reacted. Personally, I did not believe they would come out so strongly in favor of independence. Having Russia, Venezuela, Kyrkyztan, a bunch of Eastern European countries with weak motives (slav brotherhood, nostalgia, potential separatist movements) does not make up for this big blow.

TIME MAGAZINE. Thursday, Feb. 21, 2008

Birth of a Nation

By DEJAN ANASTASIJEVIC



There's a famous saying that everyone is better off not seeing how sausages and laws are made. The same applies to countries. In less than two decades, I've seen no less then six new nations born in my immediate neighborhood, the Balkans, and it was a messy process every time. So please forgive me if I'm not greeting the latest one — Kosovo, which declared independence on Sunday, Feb. 17 — with the respect and admiration it probably deserves.
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Just like its slightly older siblings — Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia and Montenegro — Kosovo rose from the ashes of the former Yugoslavia, whose destruction was caused by the brutal policies of Serbian dictator Slobodan Milosevic. But there are key differences. Unlike the others, Kosovo was not a Yugoslav republic, but an autonomous province within Serbia. It is mostly populated by ethnic Albanians, while the other post-Yugoslav states have Slavic majorities. And Kosovo has been effectively ruled by the United Nations since 1999, when Milosevic's troops were forced to pull out under NATO bombs, although Serbia was allowed to retain a token sovereignty over the province.

Now that this sovereignty is being voided by Kosovo's elected government, Serbia is furious, blaming the Kosovars and their Western backers, especially the United States, one of the first countries to recognize Kosovo's independence. This anger reflects the special place Kosovo holds in Serbs' hearts and minds, as the birthplace of their culture and religion. But it is fueled as well by memories of the U.S.-led bombing campaign, described at the time as "humanitarian intervention" but viewed in Belgrade as part of a cynical plan to rip off a piece of Serbia.

Russia, China and several European countries claim that an independent Kosovo sets a dangerous precedent, encouraging separatist movements throughout the world, from Taiwan to Nagorno-Karabakh. To this, the United States and its European allies reply that Kosovo is a unique case, and that other regions would not be allowed to use it as a precedent.

As a Serb, I empathize with my compatriots' anger and frustration over losing Kosovo. But as a reporter who witnessed the atrocities against ethnic Albanians in the '90s, I can understand that the vast majority of them would under no circumstances accept living under Serbian patronage, even though Milosevic is dead and Serbia is now a democracy. And as for setting a precedent, I don't think that Kosovo's independence would have much effect on the rest of the world — and frankly, I don't really care.

But I am deeply concerned about something else: what kind of country has just been created, and what kind of life its citizens will have. Kosovo holds three European records: it has the highest unemployment, the worst infant-mortality rate and the lowest living standards on the Continent. The latest Human Rights Watch report chronicles widespread oppression and discrimination of non-Albanian ethnic minorities — Serbs, Turks and Roma — along with organized crime, rampant corruption and a dysfunctional justice system.

And if that's not enough, Kosovo already faces its own separatist movement: Serbs in northern Kosovo, many of whom were evicted from their homes in revenge attacks by ethnic Albanians, don't accept being dominated by Pristina for exactly the same reasons Pristina refuses to be dominated by Belgrade. With the backing of the Serbian government, they are resolved to keep their territory — some 15% of Kosovo — within Serbia.

So instead of stabilizing the Balkans, the creation of Europe's youngest state could be paving the way for future troubles. How things turn out largely depends on the European Union, which just decided to dispatch some 2,000 police officers, prosecutors and judges to Kosovo. Their goal, in essence, is to establish the rule of law in Kosovo so that the 15,000 NATO peacekeepers currently deployed there can go home. The E.U. must also keep an angry and frustrated Serbia on the path toward European membership, because that prospect is just about its only inducement to good behavior toward its new neighbor.

I dearly hope that E.U. officials know what they're doing, and that they're up to this challenge. Declaring Kosovo's independence was easy, but making it a decent place to live will be a long haul. The price of failure will be paid in the lost lives and torched homes that have become a tragic pedal note to recent Balkan history. And this time, it would not be quite as easy to blame the Serbs.

Rosemary, you have managed to assemble (unintentionally I'm sure) quite a gang of racists on your blog. Selected quotes from other comments:

- Blacks are crazy fascists and that's it.
- Blacks have allowed the downtown region of their capital to be in flames, to be systematically ravaged and vandalized for almost a week [...] They deserve everything they get.
- Blacks are thugs, they have always been that way. Violent and vindictive.

In response to your post, I do, on sites I frequent. Why don't people do it more often - probably lack of Internet access and knowledge of English. On websites of Serbian media, people are commenting like there's no tomorrow.

Luckily, at least regarding recent events, I get the impression that there's almost no need for Serbian comments. People in the West are angry about this almost as much as Serbs are.

what somebody thinks? What kind of Serbian good behavior would make it to the news in Western media? People in US are changing their mind about Serbian Christians and Muslim Albanians so thank you very much for your advise…
There is so much you can push somebody and so much irony and hypocrisy that one take, at some point you just say whatever, who cares think whatever you want I don’t exist to please you…

If you look at the comments of the "Serbia's thugs" article and other articles about Kosovo's independence you will see that about half the writers are against the independece. Serbia's position is not without support.

But none of these comments addresses the "thug" image problem and I think that that is because many of the internationally oriented Serbs look down on their primitive compatriots and consider them "thugs" too. Just look at the B92 news. Every violent action by protestors is recorded and everybody who asks for Kostunica's resigntion gets an article. But when Kostunica condemns the riots and asks for calm and when the police starts arresting rioters nothing is mentioned. Why? I think that it is because such signs of civilization wouldn't fit in their image of the primitive "other" Serbs.

Just think of some of the things we've seen when Atac and other organisations have arranged protests against WTO etc.
Protests don't only go sour in Serbia; and a protest attended by a quarter of a million is practically an accident waiting to happen. Certainly the attacks on the embassies were deplorable and should have been prevented, but they don't prove anything about Serbian people in general. What the blog comments here seem to show, however, is that a number of Serbian people have an undeservedly low self-image, which is why it is good to have "naïve" friends like Rosemary telling you something different.

Serbia -- Angry Forever?

"Had Belgrade submitted a list of demands in exchange for flexibility over the Kosovo issue -- territorial compensation, financial aid or a timeline for accession -- it would have gotten the majority, if not all, of what it asked for."

Oh you poor malicious fool, Belgrade did that, and much, much more:

http://blog.b92.net/text/2289/%C4%90in%C4%91i%C4%87ev%20zahtev%20za%20re%C5%A1enje%20statusa%20Kosova/

Will anyone tell this to Spiegel? (I can't bother with them, and I'm not a Serb.)

As if the headline is not bad enough, the editorial is completely one-sided and simple-minded, basically saying Serbs Yet Again Suck, but not giving any reasons why or background into how the US government may have (heartily) contributed to the problems.

Hey Rosy, I've found solution. Wouldn't it be great if your Web browser could automatically point out the trigger words in documents you read, and even translate politically correct gobbledegook into plain talk? Well it is possible!

Read here!